Jim85IROC

iTrader: (6)

I've never installed valve springs before, so this will be my first time. I've got a fairly good handle on the mechanics of actually swapping the springs, but my concerns lie in the setup to verify that they are installed properly. Unfortunately, my Patriot springs came with absolutely no information of any kind. Their website states an install height of 1.8". My question is just how precise do you need to be with that? Within a thousandth? 10 thousandths?

Secondly, I was wondering what people's opinions were of the Patriot Xtreme springs vs. the PRC springs. I already bought the patriots based on the recommendation of my tuner, but there seems to be chatter here about the PRCs having more longevity. I'm curious to see what kind of life people are experiencing with their Patriots.

Thanks

printmanjackson

iTrader: (1)

what cam are you running? I have always heard duel springs last longer than single but single are easier to install.

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (6)

final selection hasn't been made on the cam, but it will be in the range of a 230/234 with lift expected in the range of 610 to 625. I didn't want to go with a single beehive style spring. I really wanted the insurance of a double spring, so that hopefully if something lets go, it'll only destroy one cylinder instead of the whole motor.

1SLwLS1

iTrader: (6)

Are you talking shims to get max lift within 0.050" of coil bind? If you find somewhere that has spring specs, that'd be great.

I will be re-adjusting my springs sometime this summer and I need to find the advertised specs of mine, which are PRC double golds good to 0.650" and my intake is running at 0.649". I have a vise and some other equipment to test the coil bind and run other tests on the springs, but I need the actual specs to see how far off I am now vs manufactured and I cannot seem to find them anywhere either.

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (6)

that's the thing... spring specs are non existent. The springs came with absolutely NOTHING in the way of specs. All it says on the website is that they should be installed to a height of 1.8". I really feel like I should have more information in order to install these properly.

1SLwLS1

iTrader: (6)

Most people, including myself, just drop em' in, put the locks on, check for proper locking, and call it a day. I know more now than I did back when I installed mine. Most experienced people will check coil bind on all 16 fresh out of the box and get a range. I plan to do that, just not fresh out of the box, to see where I am at, and to see if one or more is out of average with the rest. It is all I can do besides contact the manufacturer, if they would even get back with little ol' me. When I replace them, in a year or so, I will check specs fresh out of the box.

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (6)

I've got a spring height checker, so at the minimum I can measure the installed height. Likewise, I can put them in a vice and measure them at bind. I'm just trying to make sure that there isn't some other important step that I should be taking! If they install at 1.801 or 1.799, then what? I guess I can shim the taller one to the right amount, but if it installs at a height below 1.8, leave it be as long as I'm not close to coil bind?

Tony Mamo @ AFR

iTrader: (13)

My advice is to install them at 1.780 - 1.800 and you should be fine.....err on the tight side. The tighter the installed height the more seat pressure you have.

Springs don't come with instructions....if your buying them its assumed you know how to properly set them up. If your running a .625 lift cam you can run them as tight as 1.775 if you wanted more seat pressure and that would still leave you with sufficient room till coilbind.

I would advise you to purchase a spring height mic.....Summit and Jegs both sell them. Its hard to do with a caliper and not very accurate.

You need this...

http://www.jegs.com/i/Proform/778/66902/10002/-1

Hope this helps...

-Tony

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (6)

Tony,
Thanks for the feedback. I bought one of those height checkers along with the springs. That's how I will measure installed height, but is it sufficient to measure the springs for coil bind by putting them in a vice and using dial calipers for that, or can I trust the coil bind spec that Patriot has on their website?

Tony Mamo @ AFR

iTrader: (13)

It never hurts to check....

But Im pretty familiar with that spring....it should coil bind around 1.085 ish (not sure what they advertise).

You can run as close as .045 till coilbind.....060 is kind of the industry quoted rule of thumb but you can run a quality spring a little tighter than that. My suggested install height leaves you with plenty of room (assuming 1.085 CB, a .625 lift cam, and a 1.780 installed height you still have .070 or so till coilbind).

-Tony

Scoggin Dickey

iTrader: (34)

The Patriot spec for coil bind is 1.090", so Tony is right on with his calculations.

BTW, I quote .060" when speaking in generalities, but I use .050" when I know what springs I'm using and I know there is plenty of room

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (6)

Spec according to Patriot's website is 1.090" coil bind, so it's pretty close to what you've measured. It sounds like I'll have plenty of room, but like you said, it doesn't hurt to check.

Thanks for the info.

1SLwLS1

iTrader: (6)

Good info

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (6)

Bringing this back from the dead to provide an update.

I've measured the installed height of the springs, and got surprising results. I'm measuring about a 1.735 installed height on the intake valve, and even less on the exhaust. This is on a bone stock, brand new LS3 head. After talking with Patriot, we've agreed that their spring just flat out won't work. The installed height is too low for the spring to work with my expected cam lift without going into coil bind, and they don't offer any locks or retainers that will raise the installed height.

My next major concern is finding a set of springs that either has a much lower coil bind number, one that's going to install closer to their advertised height, or one that will work with +.050 locks. I'm hoping that the PRC EHTs will fit the bill.

It's a good damned thing I checked these things instead of just installing them on faith.

TooLateVTEC

iTrader: (2)

Good deal Jim, that couldve just saved you a LOT of money after you got it running and running it hard.

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (6)

Yeah... it just makes me wonder if I got a retarded head or I'm just the only one measuring the heights on these things. I couldn't find hardly any posts from people who measured under 1.8 on LS3 heads. I guess I'll find out when I measure the other head.