How to diagnose a failing lifter(s)
08-11-2010, 07:14 AM
#22
Off topic, is it possible to starve the lifters of oil, causing them to be noisy or not pump up? The reason I am asking, is I drilled 1/2" holes in the sides of the lifter trays by each lifter to let some of the oil out.. I read this in a LS1 engine "500HP street engine" building book, and they recommended doing this to limit the trays from completely fiilling up with oil, which would keep the oil from getting too hot and foamy and robbing horse power? Said it was good for a few ponies, so I tried it.. Now Im wondering if it's having adverse effects..
08-11-2010, 08:05 AM
#23
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[QUOTE=1SLwLS1;13719043]OK, so the 0.051/0.052 stock gasket. And the lifters are stock to this engine or replacement LS1 lifters?
Original LS1 lifters that came in the engine. I was on the fence about replacing them because of the new Cam, but being low mile rollers, I was swayed into reusing them..
How much influence does oil viscosity/ brand have on v/t noise? I just put in some cheap 5w30 for test and tune and was going to change to Mobil synthetic 5w30 extended performance immediately following break-in/ tune.. Wondering if 10w30 might help with my clatter?
Original LS1 lifters that came in the engine. I was on the fence about replacing them because of the new Cam, but being low mile rollers, I was swayed into reusing them..
How much influence does oil viscosity/ brand have on v/t noise? I just put in some cheap 5w30 for test and tune and was going to change to Mobil synthetic 5w30 extended performance immediately following break-in/ tune.. Wondering if 10w30 might help with my clatter?
08-11-2010, 09:07 AM
#24
Not sure on noise, I would imagine little, but when the oil is up to temp, the viscosity is the same with either oil you listed. If you have 7.400" PRs laying around, try them out, see if it helps and if that is what you come up with as far as measurements go, give it a shot.
Also when you do get it to zero lash, push on the rocker over the PR and see that it does move back and forth, so you can get a feel for the lifter moving. If they won't move at all, then that may be half of your problem, lifters that are bled down.
Also when you do get it to zero lash, push on the rocker over the PR and see that it does move back and forth, so you can get a feel for the lifter moving. If they won't move at all, then that may be half of your problem, lifters that are bled down.
08-11-2010, 09:14 AM
#25
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Not sure on noise, I would imagine little, but when the oil is up to temp, the viscosity is the same with either oil you listed. If you have 7.400" PRs laying around, try them out, see if it helps and if that is what you come up with as far as measurements go, give it a shot.
Also when you do get it to zero lash, push on the rocker over the PR and see that it does move back and forth, so you can get a feel for the lifter moving. If they won't move at all, then that may be half of your problem, lifters that are bled down.
Also when you do get it to zero lash, push on the rocker over the PR and see that it does move back and forth, so you can get a feel for the lifter moving. If they won't move at all, then that may be half of your problem, lifters that are bled down.
Another thought.. Would fuel octance have any effect on valve train noise? Spark knock maybe? To this point, I have only dumpped in 5 gallons of some 87octane mower gas :-).. Reason I ask, is I was looking on an LS1 engine builders website this morning and all the LS1 crate motors they sell - from mild to wild were a minimum of 93 octane, to as high as a 100 octane..??
08-11-2010, 09:41 AM
#26
If it is knock, yes octane makes a world of difference. That is a possibility since you are running higher compression. It hasn't been tuned yet, right? I am not too familiar with tuning, but I would think if you are knocking, it would retard the timing and throw a DTC and turn on the SES light. Not sure on that though.
When I was referencing pushing on the lifter, you could do it with your thumb, but it is easier to see/feel when you put the rocker on at zero lash and either just push the rocker tip or watch the rocker tip closely as you tighten the rocker bolt by hand and watch the PR lower and compress the lifter. You could also set the PR in and use calipers or a dial indicator to see where it is resting. You could reference it from the top of the head where the valve cover seals. You would then also know that it is bled down by comparing channels that you know you can compress the lifter(s) vs channels you know they won't move.
When I was referencing pushing on the lifter, you could do it with your thumb, but it is easier to see/feel when you put the rocker on at zero lash and either just push the rocker tip or watch the rocker tip closely as you tighten the rocker bolt by hand and watch the PR lower and compress the lifter. You could also set the PR in and use calipers or a dial indicator to see where it is resting. You could reference it from the top of the head where the valve cover seals. You would then also know that it is bled down by comparing channels that you know you can compress the lifter(s) vs channels you know they won't move.
08-11-2010, 07:25 PM
#27
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If it is knock, yes octane makes a world of difference. That is a possibility since you are running higher compression. It hasn't been tuned yet, right? I am not too familiar with tuning, but I would think if you are knocking, it would retard the timing and throw a DTC and turn on the SES light. Not sure on that though.
When I was referencing pushing on the lifter, you could do it with your thumb, but it is easier to see/feel when you put the rocker on at zero lash and either just push the rocker tip or watch the rocker tip closely as you tighten the rocker bolt by hand and watch the PR lower and compress the lifter. You could also set the PR in and use calipers or a dial indicator to see where it is resting. You could reference it from the top of the head where the valve cover seals. You would then also know that it is bled down by comparing channels that you know you can compress the lifter(s) vs channels you know they won't move.
When I was referencing pushing on the lifter, you could do it with your thumb, but it is easier to see/feel when you put the rocker on at zero lash and either just push the rocker tip or watch the rocker tip closely as you tighten the rocker bolt by hand and watch the PR lower and compress the lifter. You could also set the PR in and use calipers or a dial indicator to see where it is resting. You could reference it from the top of the head where the valve cover seals. You would then also know that it is bled down by comparing channels that you know you can compress the lifter(s) vs channels you know they won't move.
08-11-2010, 08:41 PM
#28
Off topic, is it possible to starve the lifters of oil, causing them to be noisy or not pump up? The reason I am asking, is I drilled 1/2" holes in the sides of the lifter trays by each lifter to let some of the oil out.. I read this in a LS1 engine "500HP street engine" building book, and they recommended doing this to limit the trays from completely fiilling up with oil, which would keep the oil from getting too hot and foamy and robbing horse power? Said it was good for a few ponies, so I tried it.. Now Im wondering if it's having adverse effects..
08-12-2010, 12:49 AM
#31
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I have exactly the same issue with my ls2. I run a set of Manton 7.475 by 11/32 hardened rods, Yella Terra 1.7 rocks, and Ti dual springs. I get that dam Lifter tap at around the same RPM as you. I figured this would come about but was hoping for the best. I am certain my problem is the junk stock lifters. I will be replacing them with Ls7 or better very soon. I figure most just deal with this intermittent tap due to the complexities of replacing the lifters.
08-12-2010, 06:44 AM
#32
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I have exactly the same issue with my ls2. I run a set of Manton 7.475 by 11/32 hardened rods, Yella Terra 1.7 rocks, and Ti dual springs. I get that dam Lifter tap at around the same RPM as you. I figured this would come about but was hoping for the best. I am certain my problem is the junk stock lifters. I will be replacing them with Ls7 or better very soon. I figure most just deal with this intermittent tap due to the complexities of replacing the lifters.
08-14-2010, 03:45 PM
#33
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still not 100% stock lifters are bad????? Before I yanked the heads off today, I tried a set of 7.400 pushrods, which is what my p/r checker said I needed (I double and triple checked my readings again).My p/r checker was 7.325, and I added .075" pre-load. It was probably the noisest it's been.. From zero lash I was getting about 3/4-1 turn to 22 ft.lbs, which seemed short. The 7.425's were probably the quietest and that was about 1-1/4-1-3/8 turns to 22 ft.lbs. This was the closest to the middle range of where Shane at Thunder says to shoot for. The 7.450's were around 1-5/8-1-3/4 turns. Little more 'sewing machine' noise than the 7.425's.. I half wondered if the stock LS1 pushrods, presumably being f'd up, might be throwing off my readings??
Anyway, I yanked her down today.. All the stock lifters looked ok, everything seemed to be in tact. Roll pattern looked good on all the cam lobes. Rollers on the lifters all looked good and rolled smooth. I was hoping to find a collapsed lifter, but no luck.. All lifters plungers were rock solid.. I stroked them in a vise to bleed off the oil, and then I could plunge them up and down and they all returned back to the retainer clip.. All 16 stockers were pumped up though... I inspected all the springs and valves in the new TSP 5.3's and they all looked good.
Now I've got everything cleaned up and am ready to reassemble with the new LS7 lifters, but I'm a little nervous as I havent found a definite problem yet? Can a lifter be bad and still pump up, or hold pressure? Am I missing something that could cause the rocker clatter/ valve train noise? Is there anything else I can check while I have it down this far? I just have a bad feeling I'm going to assemble this thing back together and I'm still going to have this problem.. I'm at the end of rope here.. I sure would appreciate any advice!! Thanks guys..
Anyway, I yanked her down today.. All the stock lifters looked ok, everything seemed to be in tact. Roll pattern looked good on all the cam lobes. Rollers on the lifters all looked good and rolled smooth. I was hoping to find a collapsed lifter, but no luck.. All lifters plungers were rock solid.. I stroked them in a vise to bleed off the oil, and then I could plunge them up and down and they all returned back to the retainer clip.. All 16 stockers were pumped up though... I inspected all the springs and valves in the new TSP 5.3's and they all looked good.
Now I've got everything cleaned up and am ready to reassemble with the new LS7 lifters, but I'm a little nervous as I havent found a definite problem yet? Can a lifter be bad and still pump up, or hold pressure? Am I missing something that could cause the rocker clatter/ valve train noise? Is there anything else I can check while I have it down this far? I just have a bad feeling I'm going to assemble this thing back together and I'm still going to have this problem.. I'm at the end of rope here.. I sure would appreciate any advice!! Thanks guys..
08-14-2010, 11:09 PM
#34
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Put the bitch back together with the ls7 lifters and see what happens. You have nothing to lose.I know for a fact that I have two bad lifter with only 17k on them.
08-15-2010, 10:27 PM
#35
Alright I am having this same problem. It sounds like its coming from the #8 cylinder on my engine as well. Take a listen to this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQNW94OUFTc
I pulled the heads and inspected the lifters(LS7's from TSP) And on about half of them I can compress the plungers to about halfway by hand, and on the others they are rock solid and won't move. Does that mean that half of my lifters are collapsed??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQNW94OUFTc
I pulled the heads and inspected the lifters(LS7's from TSP) And on about half of them I can compress the plungers to about halfway by hand, and on the others they are rock solid and won't move. Does that mean that half of my lifters are collapsed??
08-15-2010, 11:43 PM
#36
Alright I am having this same problem. It sounds like its coming from the #8 cylinder on my engine as well. Take a listen to this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQNW94OUFTc
I pulled the heads and inspected the lifters(LS7's from TSP) And on about half of them I can compress the plungers to about halfway by hand, and on the others they are rock solid and won't move. Does that mean that half of my lifters are collapsed??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQNW94OUFTc
I pulled the heads and inspected the lifters(LS7's from TSP) And on about half of them I can compress the plungers to about halfway by hand, and on the others they are rock solid and won't move. Does that mean that half of my lifters are collapsed??
08-16-2010, 08:49 AM
#39
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Alright I am having this same problem. It sounds like its coming from the #8 cylinder on my engine as well. Take a listen to this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQNW94OUFTc
I pulled the heads and inspected the lifters(LS7's from TSP) And on about half of them I can compress the plungers to about halfway by hand, and on the others they are rock solid and won't move. Does that mean that half of my lifters are collapsed??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQNW94OUFTc
I pulled the heads and inspected the lifters(LS7's from TSP) And on about half of them I can compress the plungers to about halfway by hand, and on the others they are rock solid and won't move. Does that mean that half of my lifters are collapsed??