HotSilverBird

Try checking the push rod to head clearance. You may have a few push rods touching the holes in the heads while its running. Will make it sound just like this.

Racinjason424

iTrader: (1)

I will double check that.. Thanks.. Anything is possible I guess, but it seems like it would tic at idle if the p/r's were hitting? Or at least be a consistent tick?? Mine is more of an inconsistent clatter? Ping, ping, pa ping.... Ping.. Pa ping, ping.. And so on..

Rob 's 73

The same thing is happening to my friends car that we just did a cam swap on. The exhaust lifter on #7 was easy to compress by hand. We suspected bad lifter. We replaced just that one and it was good to go until the oil got hot. At low RPMs the noise will come and go. I thought his O ring was suspect (flat spot on one side) but we didn't have a replacement. It has good oil pressure but it could be drawing air into the oil stream. The rear lifters are the first thing to get oiled. We should know later this week if a new O ring fixes his issue.

HotSilverBird

Well inspect them carefully, look for any small scuffs or marks on the pr's. My stock 02 formula had the very same issue you are having, drove me nuts. BUTT the difference was my car sat for 5 years. Some of the lifters were bleeding down for no reason and it would clatter @ 1800 rpms something terrible. rev it higher and it woul settle down.

Finally what i did was change the oil to 10-30 and added a qt of rislone. Let it idle for 1/2 hr to get any air out of the lifters and now its much better. BUTT every time i change the oil and replace the oil filter the valves clatter terrible again until i let it idle to get the air out of the lifters. Odd but true.

Another problem you may want to consider is a bad ORING at the oil pump pickup. It will cause the very issue you are having and in fact gm has a bulletin to dealers about it. The air in the oil causes the lifter to clatter. Might want to check that 1st.

I susspect that my lifter problem is from a dried out oring at the pump from sitting so long.

Racinjason424

iTrader: (1)

Mine seems to be #8 exhaust - but same exact thing I am thinking... Please keep me posted - very interested.. In fact If I get mine done first - I will let you know my outcome. Thanks!

Racinjason424

iTrader: (1)

That is crazy! I've previously driven mine probably 20 or so miles, and idled for hours, I would have to think that the air is out of the lifters, but I guess I dont know anything for sure anymore!! I might try to let it idle tonight for a while and just see how it reacts, as I just changed the oil and drove it - very little, if any static idle time on the 20w50..

Although mine was new when I assembled the motor last year, I am trying a new oil pump o-ring sometime this week.. My motor sat for over a year before I lit it, so I'm wondering if I flat spotted it too, or knicked it putting in?? I was very careful putting it in, but I didnt inspect it at the time either.. At the time, I didnt realize just how critical this magical o-ring was.. Thanks for the tips and please let me know if/when you swap your o-ring what your results are..

HotSilverBird

If the oring is damaged no amount of idling is going to help. I think the oil or rislone swelled my oring up a bit helping my situation.

Rob 's 73

My buddy got the O ring replaced last night.....issue solved. He was bouncing the rev limiter this morning. No more lifter noise.

Racinjason424

iTrader: (1)

Sa-weeeet! That's good to hear.. I got the front yanked off my motor last night, but havent made it to the oil pump yet.. I should have the o-ring swapped out this weekend and will post my results. I hope I am as successful as your buddy!!!! Thanks for the update.

Racinjason424

iTrader: (1)

Well.. I got the o-ring out last night and it looked 99.9% perfect.. It had one small knick, rather an imperfection on one face, but I had my doubts it was causing a leak of any kind.. I installed a brand new blue o-ring this morning, carefully reassembled complete and started her back up..

It saddens me to report that the new o-ring did not make a difference at all.. I did change out the stiffer relief spring in the oil pump while I had it out and it did bring my pressure down to around 50psi at hot idle..

Anyway, it was perfect when I first started the motor, I could not produce the clatter at any RPM - same as before, but as the motor warmed up to 180 or so, I could still here that dreadful ting, ting-ta ting, ting, ta-ting.. ting.. Clatter when I rev it up to 18-2000 and hold it.. The clatter (Sounds a lot like spark knock??) still sounds like it is isolated to the passanger side rear area.. The only thing that is not new in the valve train is the rockers, and I have since switched sides and that made no difference, so I ruled out the rockers. I am running out of things to try in a hurry.. About the only thing I thought of to possibly eliminate any bad parts on the pass rear side was swapping spark plugs, wires, coils and injectors from side to side.?? I dont think any of that stuff could be bad becuase it idles perfectly and revs really nice - no miss or sputter at all. Smooth as silk.. Any other ideas before I google how to tie a noose??

gokussx4

iTrader: (3)

Any resolution to your nightmare ticks?

Racinjason424

iTrader: (1)

Tell you here in a week or so... I took the car to Katech a few days ago.. It was time to seek professional help..

gokussx4

iTrader: (3)

Sorry to hear that Look forward to your post!

purple98haz28

iTrader: (5)

subscibing what have they found...

Racinjason424

iTrader: (1)

Unfortunately, Katech's findings were really inconclusive.. They suspect that the top end is getting insufficient oiling, based on what the engine sounds like and from watching in through the fill hole in valve cover while running. They did rip the top of the motor apart and checked everything from broken springs, coil bind, spring assembly height, cam lift, pushrod preload, rockers, lifters pumped, rocker swipe, overall geometry and basically said everything was perfect and was matched well.. Long story short, without them pulling the motor and disassembling complete to diagnose further, which would be very expensive, they have done what they can do.. As a side note, Katech was an A1 class act.. Very professional, very knowledgable staff and man.. What a beautiful facility - you could eat off the floors.. I was drooling..

I plan on picking up the car next week.. I will do a little more research on oiling issues, etc, before I start pulling the motor down and out, but for now that is the plan.. I did talk to Lingenfelter, whom provided the new ported hi-volume oil pump to see if they had any ideas, and they suggested maybe the pick-up tube o-ring?? Which I have changed twice and was perfect both times.. They said oiling issues/ v/t noise could be a hundred different things, so basically just start looking..

After sitting in front of this computer for months now, reading thousands and thousands of threads all with very similar problems with noisy #7 or #8 lifters, after oil is hot, throttle at 1500, etc., I'm starting to believe the insufficient oil theory.. I did easily find and read a lot of "insufficient oil" threads and surprisingly, a lot of people question the oiling to the top end and suspect blocked ports, galleys, or just that LS1's maybe had bad oil porting to begin with.. Probably 2/3 of the "noisy valve train" threads are solved with using the proper length push rods, replacing weak ls1 lifters or replacing a faulty oil pump o-ring.. BUT, that leaves a lot of threads with very similar scenarios as mine where everything has been checked, re-checked, replaced, etc. and the threads just eventually die off with no conclusion of fix found.. I believe I am in this "noisy #7 or #8 lifter" group now, except I want to find and fix the problem and try to help out so many others like me..

I did read an interesting thread yesterday that was posted by an experienced LS1 builder that was fighting a very similar diagnosis in regards to engine noise & insufficient oiling.. He found when he pulled the motor out/ down, that the oil pick-up tube screen was almost completely blocked off with black, almost powdered metal.. He called it "black steel wool". This would obviously constrict oil flow and seems likely to starve the top end.. He contemplated on pulling the screen off the pick-up tube and just letting the 'powder' go thru the pump and find it's way into the oil filter.. It was suggested not to do this, so instead, he JB welded a couple of specialized magnets inside the oil pan, near the screen, to try and re-direct the 'powder metal' contaminants.. This sounded like a good plan to me! And something worth looking at.. Like a lot of other threads, it think it died off before he reported back of his outcome....

I honestly believe that whatever is causing the insufficient oil flow to the top end, coupled with heavy, dual valve spring force pushing on the lifters, are causing #7 and/or #8 lifters to partially bleed down from lack of adequate oil supply/ pressure, thus causing rocker noise..?? Maybe the oil flow to the top end is ok?? Maybe the lifters just cant support the spring pressure with marginal oil flow/pressure? Might be ok for a stock cam, lifter and valve spring..? Maybe I have partial blockage?? I don't know, but I am going to find out... Hopefully when this is all said and done, we can make a "lifter ticky sticky"

gokussx4

iTrader: (3)

I don't recall this thread mentioning the cam retainer plate area. I have read other articles that suggest oiling issue for the top end of the motor if the cam retainer plate isn't sealing properly. Not sure if you have looked at this part of the engine before but the cam retainer plate seals up the oil flow for the valley I believe. Anyone else have thoughts on this?

JackArse32

so glad you posted this. i actually was going to post a thread since i hadn't seen anyone else have the same type of problem. from about 1500-1900 get the sewing machine on steroids sound, before and after tho.. just beautiful sounding and never occurs until the engine is completely warmed up. seeing that yours is most likely an oiling issue, i'm hoping thats the same as mine.

Racinjason424

iTrader: (1)

What's your set-up? cam, lifters, springs?? I read another post earlier that also made some sense.. the stock lifters are turned down in the center where the oiling hole is and this area is supposed to stay contained in the lifter bore to maintain oil and pressure.. Someone suggested that smaller base circle cams, like mine, that due to the lifter traveling further, the under-cut area may actually just travel outside the lifter bore momentarily allowing oil and pressure to bleed off?? I have no proof of that, but it makes sense I guess. I do know the morel lifters and maybe comp lifters designed for higher lift and travel have a wider undercut area, which I’m assuming to contain the oil.?? I also think the Morels may have stiffer springs in them to combat bleeding/ pumping at higer pressures/ higher rpms?? I’m still just getting into researching aftermarket lifters, but Morels seem like the hot ticket.. Will it fix my problem?? I don’t know, but I think it could certainly help…. I hate the thought, but maybe a solid lifter set-up would cure all problems?

JackArse32

oh, didn't realize that i didn't have any signature on here.

everythign is completely stock on mine, 65k.

and of course, i'm not happy you have the issue, just that since you do, you happened to post. heh.

SSwt00SS

iTrader: (18)

this thread is exactly what i was looking for. i have the same issue w/my '98 TA Ws6 with 67,xxx. oil holds steady as well, 55-60psi, no leaks, not burning oil, not spun bearing(s). from 1500-2000rpm it makes the same noise and shakes the **** out of the steering column, all noise on the passenger side as well.

i have picked up a low milage used set of lifters in excellent condition to replace the current ones. same with pushrods. only thing i dont have are rockers.

it sucks you have not resolved your issue, and im sure like mine, the motor runs strong, power everywhere, but the noise is annoying, embarassing, and hair-pulling to fix.