Another ARP Rod Bolt Nightmare
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 537
Likes: 1
PS LS1450, it is incredible that theses engines are monsters hidden in small blocks but its also even more incredible that racing teams are creating 1200+hp out of little 2.0l engines N/A. 
[/QUOTE]
What teams are doing this?
Formula 1 engines, now limited to 2.4 liter V8's, "only" are capable of around 750 hp and that is near 18,000 rpm. These are among the most exotic NA engines made. If there is a way to get nearly twice this power with smaller displacement, I'd like to learn more.
[/QUOTE]What teams are doing this?
Formula 1 engines, now limited to 2.4 liter V8's, "only" are capable of around 750 hp and that is near 18,000 rpm. These are among the most exotic NA engines made. If there is a way to get nearly twice this power with smaller displacement, I'd like to learn more.
Thread Starter
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (23)
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,411
Likes: 0
From: Baltimore, MD
Yeah Id have to agree. If you are planning on not honing after and checking the work you have performed on your expensive motor then at least install them this way as it would be the most proper in keeping the true bore size and not throwing it off as much as completely removing the bolts first. Also, make sure your torque wrench is accurate, its an easy thing to forget 
PS LS1450, it is incredible that theses engines are monsters hidden in small blocks but its also even more incredible that racing teams are creating 1200+hp out of little 2.0l engines N/A.
PS LS1450, it is incredible that theses engines are monsters hidden in small blocks but its also even more incredible that racing teams are creating 1200+hp out of little 2.0l engines N/A.
oh and torque wrench was brand new from Lowes.
Thread Starter
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (23)
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,411
Likes: 0
From: Baltimore, MD
thanks for the support guys.
The only correct way to swap out the rod bolts is to resize the rods. If you don't want to follow ARP's instructions, why even worry about using a torque wrench or stretch gauge? Just tighten them with a box end wrench until they feel tight. Just be sure to do one bolt at a time...
Sorry this happened to the op, but I do have one question.
If you are taking a motor out and putting new bearings in it and using Katech bolts would it be a good idea to have a machine shop check them or if I simply plastigauge them is that good enough.
If you are taking a motor out and putting new bearings in it and using Katech bolts would it be a good idea to have a machine shop check them or if I simply plastigauge them is that good enough.
Plastigauge won't tell you if your housing bores are round, they can only measure bearing clearance. A machinist will have the bore gauges to accurately measure how round the bores are (or aren't).
i dont understand why ur assuming i installed them incorrectly. i do everything meticulously, just because i worry too much if i dont. i did my research before i started on it. i did each bolt one at a time, used the appropriate lubricant supplied, and torqued them using the same sequence everyone else has done. im just one of the unlucky guys that didnt work out for me.
Up 'till this post, you had not said that they were changed 1 @ a time. If this is the case, it's the first I've heard of anyone having a failure after carefully swapping one @ a time. Still, it sounds like the failure was caused because one or more of the bolts had worked its' way loose. Is that the case? If so, it makes no difference that they were done one @ a time, 'cuz they were not tight enough & the becoming loose is likely what has caused the problem.
Sorry for the double post. I forget to multi-quote & then remember that there was another comment that I want to reply to. This leads to a double post.
The statement is related to what us garage mechanics are able to do with them. Relating an F1 2.4L build & budget to a 5.7L LS build & budget is just plain silly. Yah, the F1 stuff is incredible, but not something remotely possible for those of us without an unlimited budget & a fully staffed engineering department. To me, trying the to compare the 1200 HP of a 2.4L F1 engine to a 500+ HP 5.7L LS engine takes ricer math. We all know that ricer math makes about as much sense as milkin' a duck.
LS1 Tech Stories
The Best V8 Stories One Small Block at Time
6 Common C5 Corvette Failures and What's Involved In Repairing Them
Pouria Savadkouei
Retro Modern Bandit Pontiac Trans AM Comes With Burt Reynolds' Autograph
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Greatest Cadillac V Series Performance Models Ever, Ranked
Pouria Savadkouei
Top 10 Most Powerful Chevy Trucks Ever Made!
Hennessey's New Supercharged Silverado ZR2 Has 700 HP
Verdad Gallardo
Coachbuilt N2A Anteros Is an LS2-Powered C6 Corvette In Italian Clothes
Verdad Gallardo
Awesome K5 Blazer Restomod Comes With C7 Corvette Power
Verdad Gallardo
10 Camaros You Should Never Buy
10 LS Engine Myths That Refuse to Die
Verdad Gallardo
Yeah I just put a set of arp bolts in today .... Kcs I correct in distortion due to more clamping force... I had two rods out of round in my 6.0 one was junk the other hones out .02 you spin rod bearing when the big end is oor! you really need the rods resized if you go with an aftermarket bolt. I'm glad I decide to resize. Price of mind at the least.
Thread Starter
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (23)
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,411
Likes: 0
From: Baltimore, MD
Up 'till this post, you had not said that they were changed 1 @ a time. If this is the case, it's the first I've heard of anyone having a failure after carefully swapping one @ a time. Still, it sounds like the failure was caused because one or more of the bolts had worked its' way loose. Is that the case? If so, it makes no difference that they were done one @ a time, 'cuz they were not tight enough & the becoming loose is likely what has caused the problem.
if anyone knows, what is the difference between the katechs and ARPs? is the design/material different?
You see, that's where I also have a problem. Unless the elongation, tensile, yield strengths of the Katech & ARP bolts are very different, there should be no advantage from one to the other.
To those commenting on the re-boring. I have not said that re-boring isn't the best solution. What I've stated is that by replacing one bolt while the other is torqued, should be enough & has always been enough when I have swapped bolts, as well as many others.
I have found in personal experience that the ARP PRO SERIES (pn:234 6301) rod bolts take so much torque to get proper stretch that they do in fact distort the rod. But the ARP HIGH PERFORMANCE(PN:134 6006) rod bolts are strong enough for a stock rod upgrade, but not so strong they distort the rod over .003. I have personally put 3 6.0's and 2 5.7's together with stock pistons,stock rods, stock crank, and ARP high performance rod bolts and have no problems. We turn them 6700-7200 rpm and all 5 motors have well over 10,000 miles on them. But.....I will agree that checking for rod distortion with a set of ARP's is definatly worth the extra effort!!!
Last edited by SILVERBIRD97; Dec 28, 2010 at 10:49 PM.
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,259
Likes: 0
From: Lexington, KY
As a machinist/tool and die maker, I would have zero confidence in the rods being round after swapping rod bolts without resizing no matter what method you use to do it. Someone should do a test; size rods with factory bolts, then swap them for any other bolt and indicate them to see if they are still round. I'm betting not.
It doesn't sound like this is the reason for this failure however.
It doesn't sound like this is the reason for this failure however.
I have been a machinist for 16 years and having used ARP pro series bolts I would do it again without thinking twice. Tell me how you are going to check the bore on the rods after installing the new bolts? another question, if you wanted to check, why bother going through all the trouble to replace the bolts anyway? just leave the stockers in there. To replace the bolts and check the rod bore at the same time you must have the rods out of the block to do it properly.(buy a new motor from a reputable shop) Also answer this, take a single rod, put the bolts in, bore it or hone it so that it is perfectly round(BTW I grind mold components all day within 0.0002), then take the bolts out, reinstall the bolts you just pulled out and remeasure...I'll bet the rod is now out of round.
Good luck to you guys, untill you learn how to measure correctly or remember just because you just bought a new torque wrench it doesn't mean it is working correctly.
Good luck to you guys, untill you learn how to measure correctly or remember just because you just bought a new torque wrench it doesn't mean it is working correctly.
Last edited by FDLS1; Dec 28, 2010 at 08:55 PM.
Why would that be necessary? Some people only have a budget to rebuild with stock parts, or an oversized piston at most. Not everybody has the $3600 or more to buy a forged shortblock. $75 for the bolts and then another $80 to resize the rods is an attractive alternative to aftermarket forged rods that cost anywhere from $250-1000.
Also answer this, take a single rod, put the bolts in, bore it or hone it so that it is perfectly round(BTW I grind mold components all day within 0.0002), then take the bolts out, reinstall the bolts you just pulled out and remeasure...I'll bet the rod is now out of round.
Thanks, good luck to you as well, until you learn that doing something for 16 years doesn't mean you're always right...
Last edited by KCS; Dec 28, 2010 at 09:38 PM.
I know you said you bought a new torque wrench at Lowes, but I'm guessing it wasn't calibrated, and with any measurement instrument, it's only as good as it's last calibration.
So maybe it was off and you only got 30-40 ft/lbs instead of 50, we'll never know.
Sorry to hear about your misfortune.
So maybe it was off and you only got 30-40 ft/lbs instead of 50, we'll never know.
Sorry to hear about your misfortune.
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,259
Likes: 0
From: Lexington, KY
Also answer this, take a single rod, put the bolts in, bore it or hone it so that it is perfectly round(BTW I grind mold components all day within 0.0002), then take the bolts out, reinstall the bolts you just pulled out and remeasure...I'll bet the rod is now out of round.
Good luck to you guys, untill you learn how to measure correctly or remember just because you just bought a new torque wrench it doesn't mean it is working correctly.
Good luck to you guys, untill you learn how to measure correctly or remember just because you just bought a new torque wrench it doesn't mean it is working correctly.
