Another ARP Rod Bolt Nightmare
I'd have to agree with several points. There is more to upgrading rod bolts than just increasing the clamp load, and that clamp load (or lack thereof) may not be the reason stock bolts tend to fail. Rod bolts should be viewed like a valve spring, and therefore cyclic fatigue should be taken into consideration as well. I won't presume to know how Katech designed their rod bolts, but if it wasn't to increase the clamping load on the big end of the rod, I would think it had something to do with cyclic fatigue for endurance type applications rather than high RPM drag race applications.
Every one keeps saying ARP rod bolts........Which ones???? If you buy the high dollar PRO series ARP rod bolts they will distort the **** out of a stock rod because of the torque it takes to stretch the bolt. Buy the ARP high performance less expensive rod bolts and go turn the **** out of it. Rod distortion will be minimum to none.Check it for christ sake. It isn't rocket science. You wanna do it right? Quit bashing and bitching and buy a set of rods that will hold up. Or if you don't know what you're doing pick a new hobby or pay someone to do it right. How can you argue with thousands of people like me who have installed these bolts(high performance not pro) in a stock rod and beat the hell out of them for years before failure? DAMN this soap box sure is tall!!!
Every one keeps saying ARP rod bolts........Which ones???? If you buy the high dollar PRO series ARP rod bolts they will distort the **** out of a stock rod because of the torque it takes to stretch the bolt. Buy the ARP high performance less expensive rod bolts and go turn the **** out of it. Rod distortion will be minimum to none.Check it for christ sake. It isn't rocket science. You wanna do it right? Quit bashing and bitching and buy a set of rods that will hold up. Or if you don't know what you're doing pick a new hobby or pay someone to do it right. How can you argue with thousands of people like me who have installed these bolts(high performance not pro) in a stock rod and beat the hell out of them for years before failure? DAMN this soap box sure is tall!!!
According to ARP's website 50 isn't the proper torque spec for either set:
134-6006 .0055 - .0060 40 ft-lbs
234-6301 .0065 - .0070 45 ft-lbs
The title of this thread suggests otherwise.
Honestly, I wouldn't expect arp to do anything for you if you try to go that route. Learn some lessons from this and move on.
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Were those the torque specs from the write up or arps specs?
According to ARP's website 50 isn't the proper torque spec for either set:
134-6006 .0055 - .0060 40 ft-lbs
234-6301 .0065 - .0070 45 ft-lbs
You mean you stripped the bolt head, not the threads right?
If the bolt was completely backed out, how can you blame arp? A broken bolt, maybe, but one that backed out? Sorry, that's not on them.
The title of this thread suggests otherwise.
Honestly, I wouldn't expect arp to do anything for you if you try to go that route. Learn some lessons from this and move on.
According to ARP's website 50 isn't the proper torque spec for either set:
134-6006 .0055 - .0060 40 ft-lbs
234-6301 .0065 - .0070 45 ft-lbs
You mean you stripped the bolt head, not the threads right?
If the bolt was completely backed out, how can you blame arp? A broken bolt, maybe, but one that backed out? Sorry, that's not on them.
The title of this thread suggests otherwise.
Honestly, I wouldn't expect arp to do anything for you if you try to go that route. Learn some lessons from this and move on.
point out to me anywhere in this thread where i blamed ARP. i said multiple times that i may have been the reason it failed. like i said earlier and i will say it again, i am not perfect, no one is. if i made a mistake, i will learn from it. i wont let this hinder me in anyway; i have gone through more **** in my life to let this effect me.
i just see these problems are way too common. and want ppl to know what happened to me and then think and judge if it was my fault or the bolts. and this was my first time tearing into a motor. i learned more about these cars in a week than in the past 5 years i have owned this car. i have no regrets and would do it over again, but either with katechs or let a machinist check the arps over.
Last edited by Yahelou; Jan 5, 2011 at 11:17 PM.
yes i stripped the bolt head. and i followed the writeup that everyone else used. who the hell are u? do u work for ARP? I dont understand why u came in here and started attacking me like i just bad mouthed u, while everyone else has given suggestions or explained to me what went wrong. whats ur contribution besides bashing me?
point out to me anywhere in this thread where i blamed ARP. i said multiple times that i may have been the reason it failed. like i said earlier and i will say it again, i am not perfect, no one is. if i made a mistake, i will learn from it. i wont let this hinder me in anyway; i have gone through more **** in my life to let this effect me.
i just see these problems are way too common. and want ppl to know what happened to me and then think and judge if it was my fault or the bolts. and this was my first time tearing into a motor. i learned more about these cars in a week than in the past 5 years i have owned this car. i have no regrets and would do it over again, but either with katechs or let a machinist check the arps over.
point out to me anywhere in this thread where i blamed ARP. i said multiple times that i may have been the reason it failed. like i said earlier and i will say it again, i am not perfect, no one is. if i made a mistake, i will learn from it. i wont let this hinder me in anyway; i have gone through more **** in my life to let this effect me.
i just see these problems are way too common. and want ppl to know what happened to me and then think and judge if it was my fault or the bolts. and this was my first time tearing into a motor. i learned more about these cars in a week than in the past 5 years i have owned this car. i have no regrets and would do it over again, but either with katechs or let a machinist check the arps over.
You haven't flat out blamed arp in this thread and I never accused you of that yet your title and the fact that you asked others if arp did anything for them suggests that you put more blame on arp than yourself. We've all made costly mistakes working on our cars at some point in our lives, you have to learn from it and move on. You said the point of this post was to determine whether it was an issue with the arp bolts or with the installation and all I did was simply point out facts that lead to installation error. Sorry I didn't come in here and pat you on the *** and say it's ok, don't worry it's not your fault but this is reality. If it was an installation error and I BS'd you how would you ever learn from you mistake???
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Honestly, if you think I'm attacking and bashing you then you're waayyyy to sensitive for this stuff. I don't work for arp but I don't need to in order to know how to properly torque a bolt. The first rule is always use the torque spec recommended by the manufacturer of the bolt you're using, not some guy on the internets writeup no matter how pretty it is or how many other people have used it. Out of curiousity I searched the writeup you're referring to and he used Katech bolts, not ARP, so why would you ever follow the torque specs he listed????
You haven't flat out blamed arp in this thread and I never accused you of that yet your title and the fact that you asked others if arp did anything for them suggests that you put more blame on arp than yourself. We've all made costly mistakes working on our cars at some point in our lives, you have to learn from it and move on. You said the point of this post was to determine whether it was an issue with the arp bolts or with the installation and all I did was simply point out facts that lead to installation error. Sorry I didn't come in here and pat you on the *** and say it's ok, don't worry it's not your fault but this is reality. If it was an installation error and I BS'd you how would you ever learn from you mistake???
You haven't flat out blamed arp in this thread and I never accused you of that yet your title and the fact that you asked others if arp did anything for them suggests that you put more blame on arp than yourself. We've all made costly mistakes working on our cars at some point in our lives, you have to learn from it and move on. You said the point of this post was to determine whether it was an issue with the arp bolts or with the installation and all I did was simply point out facts that lead to installation error. Sorry I didn't come in here and pat you on the *** and say it's ok, don't worry it's not your fault but this is reality. If it was an installation error and I BS'd you how would you ever learn from you mistake???
ur right the write up was with katech bolts, but in the later pages, the arp torque specs were also given. and u are right, not everything on this site will always be right. but it seemed that so many ppl used it with success that it was good to use. but like u said, u live and u learn. and this is one that i will definitely learn from.
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to be honest, i did this almost 6-7 months ago. but i used the correct socket. i had no problems doin all the bolts until i got to the last one and messed up the last one. i didnt have the socket all the way on and when i tried to unbolt it, it slipped off and stripped the head. the threads were not damaged at all.
+1. I will put a glory hole in my block before I swap rod bolts just to spin a bearing right after I dump a couple grand to do an HCI build on this thing.
But in all... you can use the best fasteners and parts in the world... if your clearances are off......bye bye. Just check everything and then double check it before you assemble it. Torque all the rod bolts down out of the engine... measure it all. With all the half *** machine shops around me I have to draw them blueprints step by step what I want done to what dimension, and then go in their shop before I pay and measure it all myself.
I learned this after a few expensive failures.
I doubt your failure (2 spun bearings) were a result of the bolts, or anything to do with installing them right or wrong. Improper clearances will invite unexpected heat/force... and many heat cycles hotter than you want will do crazy things to metal....loosen bolts, ...etc.
Its been a few years since ive had rods resized, im guessing a hundred bucks maybe for all 8.
But in all... you can use the best fasteners and parts in the world... if your clearances are off......bye bye. Just check everything and then double check it before you assemble it. Torque all the rod bolts down out of the engine... measure it all. With all the half *** machine shops around me I have to draw them blueprints step by step what I want done to what dimension, and then go in their shop before I pay and measure it all myself.
I learned this after a few expensive failures.
I doubt your failure (2 spun bearings) were a result of the bolts, or anything to do with installing them right or wrong. Improper clearances will invite unexpected heat/force... and many heat cycles hotter than you want will do crazy things to metal....loosen bolts, ...etc.
But in all... you can use the best fasteners and parts in the world... if your clearances are off......bye bye. Just check everything and then double check it before you assemble it. Torque all the rod bolts down out of the engine... measure it all. With all the half *** machine shops around me I have to draw them blueprints step by step what I want done to what dimension, and then go in their shop before I pay and measure it all myself.
I learned this after a few expensive failures.
I doubt your failure (2 spun bearings) were a result of the bolts, or anything to do with installing them right or wrong. Improper clearances will invite unexpected heat/force... and many heat cycles hotter than you want will do crazy things to metal....loosen bolts, ...etc.
Oh yea, best part is my valves were hitting two of the pistons in my motor with a ms4 and prc ls6 stg 1.0 heads that Texas speed said would clear fine. . . . .guess I or they were wrong.
Which brings me to the rod bolts.
So thanks again for a good reply.
Find another machine shop if they tell you 100 bucks...
I had my block honed and rods resized for 160 locally. Between 10 and 15 a rod is typical from what I have seen shopping around.
I had my block honed and rods resized for 160 locally. Between 10 and 15 a rod is typical from what I have seen shopping around.
