JZ'sTA

iTrader: (23)

Well if there is a problem with the heads I do agree we all need to know about it.
I do see PP taking action ASAP, and it seems they will fix and replace anything wrong if there product is at fault.
I can see both points people are making.
Some say it's not right to post without contacting and others say it is okay to do this.
Nearly everyone that has heard about this story will get to the bottom, and hear the end result either way. I think that if there was nothing wrong from PP then everyone will realize this and have no problem with PP. Any negative things they are thinking or typing will be gone. If this isn't PP fault then no one will use this thread as a example in the future when talking about PP heads.
If all this is true then there will be a ton of negative things written anyway and this thread will just be the start.
I hope that if there is a problem with the heads PP will do what they have to do, and I believe if they do things right people will respect the company more.
PP will have to go back to the drawing board and fix these problems, which happens sometimes.
All we know is there is a possible problem here. I am a PP fan and like the fact that they offer these heads for the price they do. They are $$$ friendly.
To come on here and post what has been posted would be natural. You would want to figure out things ASAP.
I myself would have waited until tomorrow and talked to PP first, but that is me, and I dont blame this person for posting. Nor do I think he was wrong.
He had 2 option's neither which was wrong.
Good luck to everyone involved and keep us posting.
If this has nothing to do with PP heads, I will do my best to type a big fat SORRY so everyone can see PP wasn't in the wrong. Only time will tell.
Again good luck

verbs

Hardly

chetyg

THE GUY THAT IT HAPPEND TOO DIDNT EVEN POST OVER HERE. I have the exact same heads and i know that i am taking a risk by doing anything other than stock. If you cant handle stuff messing up get rid of your car and get a damn huffy. speed cost money and breaking stuff is part of it.

racer7088

I know people that have run their motors dry before without knowing or with the belt off of the water pump or with the water pump not on and had seats fall so it's not always the heads or valvetrain but it could be. You could probably tell by looking at everything including the pistons.

robiferretti

this thread is on fire, i cant even read all the posts before refreshing it and having 6 more!

elmerz28

::::Rasies hand::::: If I may toss in my 2 cents here. Yes it was wrong of him to post before contacting PP, some of us can agree on that, some of us can't. Yes it would be nice to know if a product I have on my car is failing. Some of us can agree on that, some of us can't. But the fact of the matter is 99% of the people postong on here right now dont have any idea of what is going on, and I'm included in that 99%. Let Terry deal with the problem, and then we can all see the outcome. If it was a PP problem, then I hope they do the right thing and fix what is broken, but if it isn't i feel sorry for the guy having to buy a new motor. So instead of sitting here going back and forth day after day, why not sit back and wait for the REAL information from PP and the man with the problem. Nothing can be done now that this is "public", so leave it be and see what Terry says/does.

Ron@Vengeance

iTrader: (51)

If in fact the problem lies in the heads, Im sure Terry will rectify it. I got a PM last week right after posting my Patriot Ls6 flow #s, which were about 20cfm low across the board. The PM was from Terry, thanking me for bringing this to his attention. He found the culprit(halfassed employee), and addressed the issue. Im sure if hes having issues with seats, valves, whatever, he will fix the situation and move forward as any good company would.

Elmer, what more information would you like to see?? A guy has a blown motor. He has 3000 miles on the motor since his heads were installed. Now he has a valveseat sitting on his piston... Am I missing something here????

It amazes that its "wrong" to post this information. If we all went by these rulese, I guess we would have to call the shop before posting dyno #s as well....Hey Terry, can I post I made 450/400?? The internet is part of the consumers market in this day and time. Shops know and understand that when they ship their products to said consumers. Results should be allowed to be posted whether good or bad. The post wasnt about Terry fixing the heads, anyone on here that knows Terry, knows he will fix the situation. The post was about a POSSIBLE problem that needs to be addressed..


Again, I dont see this thread as a bash.. It shed some light on a serious issue.. Looking at the pictures I dont see where else the problem could be, maybe someone smarter than me could tell me what caused a valve seat to bounce around a cylinder after 3000 miles of use...???

BeaSSt96Z, I didnt start this thread, Spanky did.

elmerz28

Unlike 99% of the people on this board I understand BOTH sides of this situation. I feel sorry for both sides on what they have to go through. I just hope it gets resolved soon.

blk~2000~Z28

What is there to understand? A third party posts a link to a thread from another forum in LS1tech's internal engine section. This thread has no real technical merit b/c the person on the other forum didn't contact PP and he seems to be dwelving into extortion, therefore this thread should have landed itself in the lounge by now since the person who started it can give no "technical" data to prove PP is to blame like his title suggests. The one picture was to dark, besides pictures tell only a fraction of the whole story.

SS125

iTrader: (1)

Did I misread these things. Previously its stated two sets of heads, I have only read about the one quy and his heads. Did I misread this or what?

SPANKY LS1

iTrader: (24)

I posted a link to another car that the same thing happened to, and the person who had the engine failure asked that I remove it and I did for now.

critter

iTrader: (9)

Having owned a business that sold a product, I have been victim of the "extortion". I've had people come back with something they clearly messed up, but swore up and down that it was faulty product, not them. This was in a fairly tight knit community, not unlike this forum. So what are you gonna do? Call the guy a liar and tell him to stuff it? Only if you enjoy suicide. That sure smells like extortion to me.

Now, having built and blown an engine or two my self, I am having a hard time understanding how a valve seat ends up on a piston without a valve failing. At that point, it is very hard to tell which came first. I certainly don't see any evidence from that picture that the seat caused the valve to fail instead of vice versa. Engine failures are never easy to reconstruct, and I surely wouldn't leap to the assumpition that a shop that blames it on the welding is very good at such sleuthing. Nor would I believe that anyone on this forum can reconstruct the engine failure by looking at that picture. Given that, it is hard to believe that there isn't some trolling going on here.

blk~2000~Z28

I agree which is why I said that this should have been moved to the Lounge.

offaxis

iTrader: (19)

I wonder when your free set of heads will be delivered for all this work. How did you get better info than the shop that checked out the motor. Either you own stock in PP or you are Terrys cousin man. Id be the first to admit I cannot say Patriot heads are at fault here but you sure seem to be saying they arent and taking this post into other directions trying to get it locked.

verbs

this is an internal engine matter, not a lounge matter. Threads like these keep the sponsors on their toes, motivating them to improve their products, which in the end, benefits both the consumer and seller.

It also alerts LS1 members to possible problems with certain products. Damn straight if I'm looking for a set of heads, I want to know all their is to know and not have very pertinent information kept hush hush or hidden in the Lounge because a few people get worked up. Many of us come to this site for good quality uncensored and unbiased info. It's threads like these that make this site invaluable IMO.

The last thing we need is to have to go fishing through the lounge any time we're looking for all the aspects of the parts we buy.

verbs

How about some 1st hand information? I've seen PP heads in person and the quality of them is mediocre. There IS for a fact a problem with the valve seats dropping on these heads damaging engines. This is not an isolated incident.

five0killr

iTrader: (2)

welll whatever the outcome here...i hope patriots customer service is up to par, because me and some buddies are all planning to get these heads in the next month

11 Bravo

iTrader: (3)

If this is a pattern with these heads, of course people should know. But can you prove what you just said about Patroit with facts? If you can't, then it makes it look like you are just talking out your rear, seeing how you are a TEA man. No offense, but you see what I mean? There is too much heresay and half truths and not enough facts on these boards. And, why is there not a thread from the customer in question like "My PP heads failed and took out my engine but they are taking care of me/not taking responsibility". Instead of a bs amateur thread like this from a third party who won't even wait to see how the big picture plays out before banging the keyboard. Gotta love the internet lol.

SPANKY LS1

iTrader: (24)

Exactly. Without this post, would you have heard about either of the PP head failures? Because of this new information, the next one that fails may very well be a "pattern". If this thread was never brought to light, the next time would have been "the first" or a "fluke". Point being, it is information, period. Too much information is just right, IMO. People should have ALL of the information, and be able to make their own decisions or form their own opinions.


If you don't like it, don't read it. I posted an informational thread, period. You're a smart enough guy to take it for what its worth, sort through the BS, and form your own opinion about it. If you go to the original post, and follow the link, you will find the post from the "customer in question" who tells how his PP heads failed...... Or the second one posted about 5-6 posts later.... Damn man, I would've expected that you wouldn't want your information edited and spoon fed to you. I would have thought you would like to have heard the whole story, and been able to form your own opinions or thoughts.

Shawn

10secondZ

iTrader: (24)

The warranty should only cover the cylinder heads themselfs...It is an aftermarket part..and 99% of products are warrantied to replacment part's only!Say the head fails due to whatever..a bad spring,faulty seat,ect..doesnt matter..the cylinder head itself is what should be replaced..not the lower half of the engine..I know that sounds mean as hell...but that is the automotive industry not myself..look at when all the 918's where breaking and destroying motors...did they replace every engine they caused damage on...NOPE..they replaced the valve spring that broke...I know it's a shitty thing...but that is how the aftermarket works...if you use a bigger camshaft...that is more strain on the rest of the valvetrain no matter what ramp you use on the lobe...but if you break a spring while using an XE-R camshaft and improper spring pressure due to "oh these are good to .600" i will be fine" it's all of a sudden the valve spring's fault...it's your own fault for not ensuring proper spring pressure,installed height,ect..and if you dont have the tools or ability to check..then have a professional install the spring's or atleast check them...now I know this thread is about failing spring seats or the possibility of..but the same principal stand's...I don't know what terry's warranty is..but he has dealt with enough **** from people bitching and complaining about stupid stuff and replacing heads and springs and ect...wich is how it works...but replacing an engine due to someone elses possible mistake is crap....I own a buisness myself and my warranty like 99% of other shops is..if i install a heads and cam package on a car..I warranty my work and replacment part's that I installed only....if a spring breaks and no damage was done to the head or chamber..I would warranty a new spring from the manufacturer.If a spring breaks and the chamber is pitted and messed up I would warranty a new head from the manufacturer..if the motor blows due to a dropped seat...I would warranty a new head from the manufacturer and that is all...because that is all that got damaged that I installed...Now, The only thing I could see is terry provide a new cylinder head...because he wasnt there...he didnt install them on your car..how is he going to warranty an engine when he wasnt there to make sure everything was installed properly...HE CAN'T...now in the miracle the say he does replace the engine...That is excellent customer service and one hell of a guy...but if he doesnt replace the engine, and just send's a new cylinder head..still excellent customer service and one hell of a guy...just the risk envolved with aftermarket parts here...if you are afraid of breaking parts (because eventually it will happen...cars dont live forever!) then stick to bolt on's....plain and simple..now i might get bashed by this post...but it's the honest truth and I hope this actually enlightens people, that when you internally modify your engine..you are taking a risk..now live on the edge or get the hell off the mountain.

Carter