POLL on PP LS6 head!
02-11-2004, 08:10 PM
#21
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Well I had a set of Stage II 5.3's and had ZERO problems with them. Now I'm running a set of their stage III LS6 heads and have had ZERO problems with them so far. Have these people that are having problems know what they are doing when installing them??? Are you paying a shop to do it or doing it yourself? I wouldn't let any shop touch my car cause most mechanics at them are retards. Just my .02
-Sly
-Sly
02-11-2004, 08:36 PM
#22
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Originally Posted by verbs
Oh, they're registered, but they won't post. I think it's hypocritical that I can't post about a friends PP heads that I saw firsthand, but someone else can without censorship.
Oh sorry, the fact that I looked at the heads myself isn't first hand. My bad.
Oh sorry, the fact that I looked at the heads myself isn't first hand. My bad.
02-11-2004, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave00C5
Well then why are you posting? If you don't have patriot heads then your only talking rumours. Tell your friends to post the problems.
I don't see you telling Spellbound to have his girlfriend post since it's her car and not his.Like I said earlier, any post like this asking for people to step up with their problematic heads or other parts is not going to be a true representation of reality considering that anyone with a bad product is at the mercy of the supplier (in this case PP) when looking for reimbursement for damages; the last thing they want to do is **** em off.
02-12-2004, 08:17 AM
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Preface: This response IS NOT meant to bash Patriot - it simply gives detail of my experience with them. What is posted is factual and specific to many of the actions/interactions I had in dealing with these heads. Take it for what you will but again - I am not meaning to bash - just telling what happend.
I have owned a set of Patriot Stage 2 (5.3 heads). I NO longer have them and no longer recomend them to others in my car club or those who COME TO ME and ask my opinion. My initial conversations with them were quite skeptical from the get-go (ie - how their costs were so low, what was included with the complete, what springs were being used, etc).
1) First set came, were installed and 30 mins before car was fired up - Terry calls and says the valves are bad. He would send me new valves and $200. I tell him I just spent alot more money on a wasted head swap and that I was concerned about the valves seating correctly. And at minimum, I would need to swap the springs - and swapping dual springs is a huge PITA and quite time consuming. At this point, I was told I didnt need to swap the springs in order to change the valves (???). I told them that they needed to swap my heads for another set - properly seated with the springs checked, etc. I got another set 10 days later. All the while - my car was tying up a shop and costing me several more hundred dollars for a second head swap, more oil, filter, gaskets, etc.
2) Retainers/rockers chewed were chewed up (putting metal through motor). Told to modify rocker arm by shaving underside of it. They were gouged to hell (I thought titanium was REAL hard?) I refused to modify a stock valve train component (essentially weaking it). Instead of Patriot providing a new set of stock diameter springs (their offer) that would avoid rocker clearance and me dealing with the added labor costs involved with a dual spring swap - I approached them about the Yella Terra's. At first they wanted to do nothing - but it was resolved with them paying $200 (essentially the cost of the springs they would have provided) of the $525 for the cost of the YT which avoided contact. Another 1.5/2 hours spent on swapping/spec'ing rocker arms (my time) - 3 more oil/filter changes performed over the next 100 miles to flush the motor.
3) Drove car for approx. 1000 miles - lost a little more then a quart of oil (never had oil consumption problems ever previously).
4) Dynoed the car - made decent power heading up the power band and would then die at 5900 rpms on a 6800 rpm redline (completely fall off). Graphed the information and it was a classic case of HORRIBLE valve float ("like a Comp 978/987 (???) spring").
5) Took the car up to a very well known speed shop to check the preload and rocker positions to ensure everything was covered on my end. Rechecked the torque on all the rocker bolts - everything was good. Took it out on the street for a WOT blast to see if maybe we corrected something (ie - maybe preload was off on one originally) and as soon as it hit 5000 rpm - BANG. Sounded horrible and the car started bucking all over the place. SES light started flashing. This was with less then 1200 miles on the heads.
6) Pulled the valve covers and checked the springs. At this point, I had my buddy Bruce (Hardtop on this board) come over and check them out since he has much more experience with heads then I - and he notices all the springs are shimmed and what I assume are spring seats (little rubber peices) at the base of the springs have shifted out from under the spring putting more stress on one side of the spring then the other. We inspect all the springs and quickly find out that the spring on #7 cylinder can be completely spun around by hand - easily. We do a leakdown test on all cylinders and #7 and its bad. Figure the spring is broken. Call Terry and he sends 3 new springs ASAP cause I gotta go racing at our club event that weekend. Get the springs in and get ready to pull the spring on 7 off - notice they are different then the ones on the car (hmmm). We do a leakdown test - cylinder #5, 7, 8 are all off. At this point, Bruce, who came over to help with the spring swap notices the spring seats/shims (forgive me, I dont know the correct term) and notices the damage done to the retainers and STRONGLY recommends pulling the heads off - as in "enough is enough." I trust his opinion/knowledge/experience like no other - the man is like a father to me when it comes to cars/racing. I agree for fear of "whats next" with these heads.
Call Terry and tell him I want out. I've paid my dues - spent WAY more then expected on this deal and frankly lost all confidence in his product due to all of these issues. I felt that at this point - I was worried about any more damage to my car and felt that I had been lucky at this point (especially with all the metal passing through the motor). Furthermore, some of the discussions we had previously were being publically contradicted and being a newbie to the "cylinder head" game - made me VERY nervous. I demanded my money back, they refused and offered me a set of PP LS6 heads instead (Gomer?). I again refused saying I had no interest in them as I didnt trust them any longer. I wished them the best and again demanded my money. As my intention was to put stock heads on my car (as at this point, I had NO more money left to play with - 3 heads swaps in 2 months add up REAL quick - not to mention the lost money in wasted tuning, oil changes, gaskets - head studs due to the numerous head swaps, etc) and with this deal - I wanted a set of stock heads back ($250 value) since I was once again paying for another day in the shop doing a swap. They agreed.
I yanked the heads off the car - noticed knicks in the top of the piston on #5, 7 and 8 cylinders. The car had sat stagnate for about 3 weeks after busting the spring and wasnt driven again (towed to the shop for the head swap). On cylinder #5 - we found rust. Some moisture was getting in from somewhere (????) - wonder how that happend?
Sent the heads back to Patriot and spent the next month emailing them/calling them, etc trying to get my money back. Finally after 1 months time - I recieved a check for my original purchase. Been done with them ever since.
Their customer service is very good - in the beginning I had no trouble getting hold of them or getting a response. They were always professional. But as for their product - I wouldnt consider using them or I cant recommend them. With my own experiences coupled with those that I've talked to who have/had these heads - I cant recommend them. I am skeptical about many things they offer for many reasons - many of which others have posted about and I know has been discussed in the mod section. I feel that I (along with some others) were used as Patriot R&D and in doing so - Patriot has shown a disregard, IN MY OPINION, for my well-being, my finances, and more importantly - my engine.
Again, this post isnt meant to bash - it states facts of the my experience with details as opposed to "I didnt like them." Some of what is said is my opinion and mine soley. For those who have PP heads and have experienced no problems - I wish you continued sucess and hope you remain happy with them. I wish no one ill luck out of spite and I will be the first to say congrats when your car performs as you expected/hope/as it should. Hopefully, the issues I have experienced have been resolved and are no longer prevelant with their product - but for the time being, with obvious reason - I am remaining skeptical.
Sorry for the long post.
I have owned a set of Patriot Stage 2 (5.3 heads). I NO longer have them and no longer recomend them to others in my car club or those who COME TO ME and ask my opinion. My initial conversations with them were quite skeptical from the get-go (ie - how their costs were so low, what was included with the complete, what springs were being used, etc).
1) First set came, were installed and 30 mins before car was fired up - Terry calls and says the valves are bad. He would send me new valves and $200. I tell him I just spent alot more money on a wasted head swap and that I was concerned about the valves seating correctly. And at minimum, I would need to swap the springs - and swapping dual springs is a huge PITA and quite time consuming. At this point, I was told I didnt need to swap the springs in order to change the valves (???). I told them that they needed to swap my heads for another set - properly seated with the springs checked, etc. I got another set 10 days later. All the while - my car was tying up a shop and costing me several more hundred dollars for a second head swap, more oil, filter, gaskets, etc.
2) Retainers/rockers chewed were chewed up (putting metal through motor). Told to modify rocker arm by shaving underside of it. They were gouged to hell (I thought titanium was REAL hard?) I refused to modify a stock valve train component (essentially weaking it). Instead of Patriot providing a new set of stock diameter springs (their offer) that would avoid rocker clearance and me dealing with the added labor costs involved with a dual spring swap - I approached them about the Yella Terra's. At first they wanted to do nothing - but it was resolved with them paying $200 (essentially the cost of the springs they would have provided) of the $525 for the cost of the YT which avoided contact. Another 1.5/2 hours spent on swapping/spec'ing rocker arms (my time) - 3 more oil/filter changes performed over the next 100 miles to flush the motor.
3) Drove car for approx. 1000 miles - lost a little more then a quart of oil (never had oil consumption problems ever previously).
4) Dynoed the car - made decent power heading up the power band and would then die at 5900 rpms on a 6800 rpm redline (completely fall off). Graphed the information and it was a classic case of HORRIBLE valve float ("like a Comp 978/987 (???) spring").
5) Took the car up to a very well known speed shop to check the preload and rocker positions to ensure everything was covered on my end. Rechecked the torque on all the rocker bolts - everything was good. Took it out on the street for a WOT blast to see if maybe we corrected something (ie - maybe preload was off on one originally) and as soon as it hit 5000 rpm - BANG. Sounded horrible and the car started bucking all over the place. SES light started flashing. This was with less then 1200 miles on the heads.
6) Pulled the valve covers and checked the springs. At this point, I had my buddy Bruce (Hardtop on this board) come over and check them out since he has much more experience with heads then I - and he notices all the springs are shimmed and what I assume are spring seats (little rubber peices) at the base of the springs have shifted out from under the spring putting more stress on one side of the spring then the other. We inspect all the springs and quickly find out that the spring on #7 cylinder can be completely spun around by hand - easily. We do a leakdown test on all cylinders and #7 and its bad. Figure the spring is broken. Call Terry and he sends 3 new springs ASAP cause I gotta go racing at our club event that weekend. Get the springs in and get ready to pull the spring on 7 off - notice they are different then the ones on the car (hmmm). We do a leakdown test - cylinder #5, 7, 8 are all off. At this point, Bruce, who came over to help with the spring swap notices the spring seats/shims (forgive me, I dont know the correct term) and notices the damage done to the retainers and STRONGLY recommends pulling the heads off - as in "enough is enough." I trust his opinion/knowledge/experience like no other - the man is like a father to me when it comes to cars/racing. I agree for fear of "whats next" with these heads.
Call Terry and tell him I want out. I've paid my dues - spent WAY more then expected on this deal and frankly lost all confidence in his product due to all of these issues. I felt that at this point - I was worried about any more damage to my car and felt that I had been lucky at this point (especially with all the metal passing through the motor). Furthermore, some of the discussions we had previously were being publically contradicted and being a newbie to the "cylinder head" game - made me VERY nervous. I demanded my money back, they refused and offered me a set of PP LS6 heads instead (Gomer?). I again refused saying I had no interest in them as I didnt trust them any longer. I wished them the best and again demanded my money. As my intention was to put stock heads on my car (as at this point, I had NO more money left to play with - 3 heads swaps in 2 months add up REAL quick - not to mention the lost money in wasted tuning, oil changes, gaskets - head studs due to the numerous head swaps, etc) and with this deal - I wanted a set of stock heads back ($250 value) since I was once again paying for another day in the shop doing a swap. They agreed.
I yanked the heads off the car - noticed knicks in the top of the piston on #5, 7 and 8 cylinders. The car had sat stagnate for about 3 weeks after busting the spring and wasnt driven again (towed to the shop for the head swap). On cylinder #5 - we found rust. Some moisture was getting in from somewhere (????) - wonder how that happend?
Sent the heads back to Patriot and spent the next month emailing them/calling them, etc trying to get my money back. Finally after 1 months time - I recieved a check for my original purchase. Been done with them ever since.
Their customer service is very good - in the beginning I had no trouble getting hold of them or getting a response. They were always professional. But as for their product - I wouldnt consider using them or I cant recommend them. With my own experiences coupled with those that I've talked to who have/had these heads - I cant recommend them. I am skeptical about many things they offer for many reasons - many of which others have posted about and I know has been discussed in the mod section. I feel that I (along with some others) were used as Patriot R&D and in doing so - Patriot has shown a disregard, IN MY OPINION, for my well-being, my finances, and more importantly - my engine.
Again, this post isnt meant to bash - it states facts of the my experience with details as opposed to "I didnt like them." Some of what is said is my opinion and mine soley. For those who have PP heads and have experienced no problems - I wish you continued sucess and hope you remain happy with them. I wish no one ill luck out of spite and I will be the first to say congrats when your car performs as you expected/hope/as it should. Hopefully, the issues I have experienced have been resolved and are no longer prevelant with their product - but for the time being, with obvious reason - I am remaining skeptical.
Sorry for the long post.
02-12-2004, 08:50 AM
#26
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I want to say,for the record,that we now use totally different springs,retainers and valves from when Hannibal bought his heads.
Last edited by TVWilkes; 02-12-2004 at 09:02 AM.
02-12-2004, 09:09 AM
#27
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Originally Posted by TVWilkes
I want to say,for the record,that we now use totally different springs,retainers and valves from when Hannibal bought his heads.
What has changed since your original head design/what to look for when people buy used?
02-12-2004, 09:14 AM
#28
coming from an owner of patriot heads though not yet installed I feel for hannibal, but it also appears that terry bent over backwards to TRY to make things right...you may have been used as a test bed but then again who isnt...springs break so people switch to different ones, valve seals fail people switch to different ones to try and correct the problems and thats not just talking about patriot though they were the last in the game but had the best initial pricing...look what its got for us though guys...finally some cheap high quality heads from several companies...if patriot did nothing else but help lower many others prices that would be good enough for some. I think their heads will continue to get better as time goes on not just for flow & dyno #'s but for parts used as well...look at AS two years ago they were flowing like 260-270 now they are well over 300cfm...having 2 shop cars is not enough r&d to get a GREAT set of heads you almost need customer cars to be test beds...ok rant over and these are JMO 
02-12-2004, 09:16 AM
#29
Originally Posted by Magred2001vette
Terry, I just bought a set of your 5.3 heads a few days ago from you. When did your updates start to be put into production.
What has changed since your original head design/what to look for when people buy used?
What has changed since your original head design/what to look for when people buy used?
02-12-2004, 09:43 AM
#30
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Originally Posted by Hannibal
Preface: This response IS NOT meant to bash Patriot - it simply gives detail of my experience with them. What is posted is factual and specific to many of the actions/interactions I had in dealing with these heads. Take it for what you will but again - I am not meaning to bash - just telling what happend.
I have owned a set of Patriot Stage 2 (5.3 heads). I NO longer have them and no longer recomend them to others in my car club or those who COME TO ME and ask my opinion. My initial conversations with them were quite skeptical from the get-go (ie - how their costs were so low, what was included with the complete, what springs were being used, etc).
1) First set came, were installed and 30 mins before car was fired up - Terry calls and says the valves are bad. He would send me new valves and $200. I tell him I just spent alot more money on a wasted head swap and that I was concerned about the valves seating correctly. And at minimum, I would need to swap the springs - and swapping dual springs is a huge PITA and quite time consuming. At this point, I was told I didnt need to swap the springs in order to change the valves (???). I told them that they needed to swap my heads for another set - properly seated with the springs checked, etc. I got another set 10 days later. All the while - my car was tying up a shop and costing me several more hundred dollars for a second head swap, more oil, filter, gaskets, etc.
2) Retainers/rockers chewed were chewed up (putting metal through motor). Told to modify rocker arm by shaving underside of it. They were gouged to hell (I thought titanium was REAL hard?) I refused to modify a stock valve train component (essentially weaking it). Instead of Patriot providing a new set of stock diameter springs (their offer) that would avoid rocker clearance and me dealing with the added labor costs involved with a dual spring swap - I approached them about the Yella Terra's. At first they wanted to do nothing - but it was resolved with them paying $200 (essentially the cost of the springs they would have provided) of the $525 for the cost of the YT which avoided contact. Another 1.5/2 hours spent on swapping/spec'ing rocker arms (my time) - 3 more oil/filter changes performed over the next 100 miles to flush the motor.
3) Drove car for approx. 1000 miles - lost a little more then a quart of oil (never had oil consumption problems ever previously).
4) Dynoed the car - made decent power heading up the power band and would then die at 5900 rpms on a 6800 rpm redline (completely fall off). Graphed the information and it was a classic case of HORRIBLE valve float ("like a Comp 978/987 (???) spring").
5) Took the car up to a very well known speed shop to check the preload and rocker positions to ensure everything was covered on my end. Rechecked the torque on all the rocker bolts - everything was good. Took it out on the street for a WOT blast to see if maybe we corrected something (ie - maybe preload was off on one originally) and as soon as it hit 5000 rpm - BANG. Sounded horrible and the car started bucking all over the place. SES light started flashing. This was with less then 1200 miles on the heads.
6) Pulled the valve covers and checked the springs. At this point, I had my buddy Bruce (Hardtop on this board) come over and check them out since he has much more experience with heads then I - and he notices all the springs are shimmed and what I assume are spring seats (little rubber peices) at the base of the springs have shifted out from under the spring putting more stress on one side of the spring then the other. We inspect all the springs and quickly find out that the spring on #7 cylinder can be completely spun around by hand - easily. We do a leakdown test on all cylinders and #7 and its bad. Figure the spring is broken. Call Terry and he sends 3 new springs ASAP cause I gotta go racing at our club event that weekend. Get the springs in and get ready to pull the spring on 7 off - notice they are different then the ones on the car (hmmm). We do a leakdown test - cylinder #5, 7, 8 are all off. At this point, Bruce, who came over to help with the spring swap notices the spring seats/shims (forgive me, I dont know the correct term) and notices the damage done to the retainers and STRONGLY recommends pulling the heads off - as in "enough is enough." I trust his opinion/knowledge/experience like no other - the man is like a father to me when it comes to cars/racing. I agree for fear of "whats next" with these heads.
Call Terry and tell him I want out. I've paid my dues - spent WAY more then expected on this deal and frankly lost all confidence in his product due to all of these issues. I felt that at this point - I was worried about any more damage to my car and felt that I had been lucky at this point (especially with all the metal passing through the motor). Furthermore, some of the discussions we had previously were being publically contradicted and being a newbie to the "cylinder head" game - made me VERY nervous. I demanded my money back, they refused and offered me a set of PP LS6 heads instead (Gomer?). I again refused saying I had no interest in them as I didnt trust them any longer. I wished them the best and again demanded my money. As my intention was to put stock heads on my car (as at this point, I had NO more money left to play with - 3 heads swaps in 2 months add up REAL quick - not to mention the lost money in wasted tuning, oil changes, gaskets - head studs due to the numerous head swaps, etc) and with this deal - I wanted a set of stock heads back ($250 value) since I was once again paying for another day in the shop doing a swap. They agreed.
I yanked the heads off the car - noticed knicks in the top of the piston on #5, 7 and 8 cylinders. The car had sat stagnate for about 3 weeks after busting the spring and wasnt driven again (towed to the shop for the head swap). On cylinder #5 - we found rust. Some moisture was getting in from somewhere (????) - wonder how that happend?
Sent the heads back to Patriot and spent the next month emailing them/calling them, etc trying to get my money back. Finally after 1 months time - I recieved a check for my original purchase. Been done with them ever since.
Their customer service is very good - in the beginning I had no trouble getting hold of them or getting a response. They were always professional. But as for their product - I wouldnt consider using them or I cant recommend them. With my own experiences coupled with those that I've talked to who have/had these heads - I cant recommend them. I am skeptical about many things they offer for many reasons - many of which others have posted about and I know has been discussed in the mod section. I feel that I (along with some others) were used as Patriot R&D and in doing so - Patriot has shown a disregard, IN MY OPINION, for my well-being, my finances, and more importantly - my engine.
Again, this post isnt meant to bash - it states facts of the my experience with details as opposed to "I didnt like them." Some of what is said is my opinion and mine soley. For those who have PP heads and have experienced no problems - I wish you continued sucess and hope you remain happy with them. I wish no one ill luck out of spite and I will be the first to say congrats when your car performs as you expected/hope/as it should. Hopefully, the issues I have experienced have been resolved and are no longer prevelant with their product - but for the time being, with obvious reason - I am remaining skeptical.
Sorry for the long post.
I have owned a set of Patriot Stage 2 (5.3 heads). I NO longer have them and no longer recomend them to others in my car club or those who COME TO ME and ask my opinion. My initial conversations with them were quite skeptical from the get-go (ie - how their costs were so low, what was included with the complete, what springs were being used, etc).
1) First set came, were installed and 30 mins before car was fired up - Terry calls and says the valves are bad. He would send me new valves and $200. I tell him I just spent alot more money on a wasted head swap and that I was concerned about the valves seating correctly. And at minimum, I would need to swap the springs - and swapping dual springs is a huge PITA and quite time consuming. At this point, I was told I didnt need to swap the springs in order to change the valves (???). I told them that they needed to swap my heads for another set - properly seated with the springs checked, etc. I got another set 10 days later. All the while - my car was tying up a shop and costing me several more hundred dollars for a second head swap, more oil, filter, gaskets, etc.
2) Retainers/rockers chewed were chewed up (putting metal through motor). Told to modify rocker arm by shaving underside of it. They were gouged to hell (I thought titanium was REAL hard?) I refused to modify a stock valve train component (essentially weaking it). Instead of Patriot providing a new set of stock diameter springs (their offer) that would avoid rocker clearance and me dealing with the added labor costs involved with a dual spring swap - I approached them about the Yella Terra's. At first they wanted to do nothing - but it was resolved with them paying $200 (essentially the cost of the springs they would have provided) of the $525 for the cost of the YT which avoided contact. Another 1.5/2 hours spent on swapping/spec'ing rocker arms (my time) - 3 more oil/filter changes performed over the next 100 miles to flush the motor.
3) Drove car for approx. 1000 miles - lost a little more then a quart of oil (never had oil consumption problems ever previously).
4) Dynoed the car - made decent power heading up the power band and would then die at 5900 rpms on a 6800 rpm redline (completely fall off). Graphed the information and it was a classic case of HORRIBLE valve float ("like a Comp 978/987 (???) spring").
5) Took the car up to a very well known speed shop to check the preload and rocker positions to ensure everything was covered on my end. Rechecked the torque on all the rocker bolts - everything was good. Took it out on the street for a WOT blast to see if maybe we corrected something (ie - maybe preload was off on one originally) and as soon as it hit 5000 rpm - BANG. Sounded horrible and the car started bucking all over the place. SES light started flashing. This was with less then 1200 miles on the heads.
6) Pulled the valve covers and checked the springs. At this point, I had my buddy Bruce (Hardtop on this board) come over and check them out since he has much more experience with heads then I - and he notices all the springs are shimmed and what I assume are spring seats (little rubber peices) at the base of the springs have shifted out from under the spring putting more stress on one side of the spring then the other. We inspect all the springs and quickly find out that the spring on #7 cylinder can be completely spun around by hand - easily. We do a leakdown test on all cylinders and #7 and its bad. Figure the spring is broken. Call Terry and he sends 3 new springs ASAP cause I gotta go racing at our club event that weekend. Get the springs in and get ready to pull the spring on 7 off - notice they are different then the ones on the car (hmmm). We do a leakdown test - cylinder #5, 7, 8 are all off. At this point, Bruce, who came over to help with the spring swap notices the spring seats/shims (forgive me, I dont know the correct term) and notices the damage done to the retainers and STRONGLY recommends pulling the heads off - as in "enough is enough." I trust his opinion/knowledge/experience like no other - the man is like a father to me when it comes to cars/racing. I agree for fear of "whats next" with these heads.
Call Terry and tell him I want out. I've paid my dues - spent WAY more then expected on this deal and frankly lost all confidence in his product due to all of these issues. I felt that at this point - I was worried about any more damage to my car and felt that I had been lucky at this point (especially with all the metal passing through the motor). Furthermore, some of the discussions we had previously were being publically contradicted and being a newbie to the "cylinder head" game - made me VERY nervous. I demanded my money back, they refused and offered me a set of PP LS6 heads instead (Gomer?). I again refused saying I had no interest in them as I didnt trust them any longer. I wished them the best and again demanded my money. As my intention was to put stock heads on my car (as at this point, I had NO more money left to play with - 3 heads swaps in 2 months add up REAL quick - not to mention the lost money in wasted tuning, oil changes, gaskets - head studs due to the numerous head swaps, etc) and with this deal - I wanted a set of stock heads back ($250 value) since I was once again paying for another day in the shop doing a swap. They agreed.
I yanked the heads off the car - noticed knicks in the top of the piston on #5, 7 and 8 cylinders. The car had sat stagnate for about 3 weeks after busting the spring and wasnt driven again (towed to the shop for the head swap). On cylinder #5 - we found rust. Some moisture was getting in from somewhere (????) - wonder how that happend?
Sent the heads back to Patriot and spent the next month emailing them/calling them, etc trying to get my money back. Finally after 1 months time - I recieved a check for my original purchase. Been done with them ever since.
Their customer service is very good - in the beginning I had no trouble getting hold of them or getting a response. They were always professional. But as for their product - I wouldnt consider using them or I cant recommend them. With my own experiences coupled with those that I've talked to who have/had these heads - I cant recommend them. I am skeptical about many things they offer for many reasons - many of which others have posted about and I know has been discussed in the mod section. I feel that I (along with some others) were used as Patriot R&D and in doing so - Patriot has shown a disregard, IN MY OPINION, for my well-being, my finances, and more importantly - my engine.
Again, this post isnt meant to bash - it states facts of the my experience with details as opposed to "I didnt like them." Some of what is said is my opinion and mine soley. For those who have PP heads and have experienced no problems - I wish you continued sucess and hope you remain happy with them. I wish no one ill luck out of spite and I will be the first to say congrats when your car performs as you expected/hope/as it should. Hopefully, the issues I have experienced have been resolved and are no longer prevelant with their product - but for the time being, with obvious reason - I am remaining skeptical.
Sorry for the long post.
I got one of the first sets of heads like hannibal here and I had some problems, IE two spring breaks in <2k miles(had to pay ~$400 to get them replaced), rockers chipping(had texas speed send me a new clearanced set), having to get more oil changes because of the chipping (I was sent a case of amsoil, but, it's 10w30).
Terry did offer to send me a new set of springs ect but now I am worried about all the other stuff I am reading. I would also do that pring swap if it didn't cost me another ~$400 that I DONT have.
I daily drive my car and for the past few mo the car has been fine (knocks on wood). I start it up in 0* weather and drive to work, no big deal. I do have to say tho, that I am almost scared to take the heads off to see what is under there. I havent been losing any oil or anything like that, but who knows. hopefully I wont be broke this summer so I can get these issues straitened out, i feel like i have a bomb in my engine bay at times.
-Steve
02-12-2004, 10:00 AM
#32
i have 5.3's so ill enter my opinion
i got in on the batch after the valve problem, but before the spring problem.
call terry when i was thinking about getting the heads, he was very helpful in discussing options, pricing, etc
got my heads, installed them. had to clearance the rockers, but that is something you have to do with 1.46 springs and personally i think it is the installers fault if they dont check clearances. ran great, great power, etc. i had a small puff of oil smoke on startup before the heads which i thought was valve seals. when i installed the new heads it was gone. about 300-400 miles later it came back. called terry. 2 days later i had 16 new valve seals at my door, FREE. installed them, oil smoke greatly reduced, almost gone.
a couple weeks later i break a spring. odd thing is terry pmmed me outta the blue the day before and says, "hey i have some crane dual springs coming in i would like you to try out and give me your opinion on." call terry again after the spring breaks. he says i can ship you new updated springs now since you need them right away, that are the same style you have, or you can wait a little for the crane duals. i wanna go with the cranes to try them out. 1.5 weeks later ups brings me new crane springs, tit retainer, new shims, new valve seals, FREE. swapped them out, heads have been perfect ever since.
i dont mind swapping springs, valve seals, etc. thats why i bought my car, to work on it. personally i dont think terry HAD to do any of this. giving me new seals was nice since they are cheap, but when i broke the spring i fully expected to pay for the replacements, and i was blown away when 300-350 bucks in valve train parts was offered to me free, including next day air.
i am 100% happy with my heads, i recommend them to lots of people, and i will continue to do business with patriot for as long as possible. terry has been more helpful to me than any sponsor on the board and i am happy to give him business
i got in on the batch after the valve problem, but before the spring problem.
call terry when i was thinking about getting the heads, he was very helpful in discussing options, pricing, etc
got my heads, installed them. had to clearance the rockers, but that is something you have to do with 1.46 springs and personally i think it is the installers fault if they dont check clearances. ran great, great power, etc. i had a small puff of oil smoke on startup before the heads which i thought was valve seals. when i installed the new heads it was gone. about 300-400 miles later it came back. called terry. 2 days later i had 16 new valve seals at my door, FREE. installed them, oil smoke greatly reduced, almost gone.
a couple weeks later i break a spring. odd thing is terry pmmed me outta the blue the day before and says, "hey i have some crane dual springs coming in i would like you to try out and give me your opinion on." call terry again after the spring breaks. he says i can ship you new updated springs now since you need them right away, that are the same style you have, or you can wait a little for the crane duals. i wanna go with the cranes to try them out. 1.5 weeks later ups brings me new crane springs, tit retainer, new shims, new valve seals, FREE. swapped them out, heads have been perfect ever since.
i dont mind swapping springs, valve seals, etc. thats why i bought my car, to work on it. personally i dont think terry HAD to do any of this. giving me new seals was nice since they are cheap, but when i broke the spring i fully expected to pay for the replacements, and i was blown away when 300-350 bucks in valve train parts was offered to me free, including next day air.
i am 100% happy with my heads, i recommend them to lots of people, and i will continue to do business with patriot for as long as possible. terry has been more helpful to me than any sponsor on the board and i am happy to give him business
02-12-2004, 10:16 AM
#33
I guess I run them on my car so I'll post also
Patriot Ls6/Lq9 59cc chamber heads
Ran them on our black 98Z28 that won the heads/cam class at
the thunder shootout & was the only h/c car in attendance to go
10s during qualifications & eliminations with a 10.89!!
The car doesnt drink oil & I sold it to a gentlemen that gives the car
a good healthy workout
Terry is a great guy that goes out of his way to make sure everyone is happy. Terry's new valvesprings are second to none, we now offer them even with cam packages!!
Patriot Ls6/Lq9 59cc chamber heads
Ran them on our black 98Z28 that won the heads/cam class at
the thunder shootout & was the only h/c car in attendance to go
10s during qualifications & eliminations with a 10.89!!
The car doesnt drink oil & I sold it to a gentlemen that gives the car
a good healthy workout
Terry is a great guy that goes out of his way to make sure everyone is happy. Terry's new valvesprings are second to none, we now offer them even with cam packages!!
__________________
Jason
Co-Owner, Texas Speed & Performance, Ltd.
2005 Twin Turbo C6
404cid Stroker, 67mm Twins
994rwhp/902lb ft @ 22 psi (mustang dyno) www.Texas-Speed.com
Jason
Co-Owner, Texas Speed & Performance, Ltd.
2005 Twin Turbo C6
404cid Stroker, 67mm Twins
994rwhp/902lb ft @ 22 psi (mustang dyno) www.Texas-Speed.com
02-12-2004, 10:29 AM
#34
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Seems the service has been very good from what I have read. The clearanced rockers is a fact with those springs and should have been checked by an installer.
Those with PP heads please keep the comments coming...
Chris
Those with PP heads please keep the comments coming...
Chris
02-12-2004, 11:05 AM
#35
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Originally Posted by robiferretti
I had a set on my car which chrewed through oil 2 quarts in 800 miles, terry sent me new valve seals but as the valve seals were on their way i blew both head gaskets and had to pull the heads. Heads were both warped and leaking 15% through the seals. I was told the valve seats were sinking and that i could have dropped a valve, (this was before any of this came about a few days ago). The heads were also flowed and i dont have a sheet to prove this (terry will reflow them when he gets the back) but i was told they flowed 277 @ .600.
Terry sent me another set and i have them new in the box. He was evry helpful with trying ot fix the situation. As with any product a bad one occasionally slips through the cracks. I still think terry has the best customer service of any of the vendors i have experienced. Also pleased with LG, but never had any problems with his stuff yet. BUt he is very helpful!
Terry sent me another set and i have them new in the box. He was evry helpful with trying ot fix the situation. As with any product a bad one occasionally slips through the cracks. I still think terry has the best customer service of any of the vendors i have experienced. Also pleased with LG, but never had any problems with his stuff yet. BUt he is very helpful!
Last edited by Justin99TA; 02-12-2004 at 11:14 AM.
02-12-2004, 01:22 PM
#37
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Stg 2 LS6 Style w/ 59cc and tsp 231/237 here.
I have had ZERO problems outta these heads. Probably 4,500 miles on the setup so far and not a single problem. I am very happy and I will be a patriot customer for the rest of my life.
I have had ZERO problems outta these heads. Probably 4,500 miles on the setup so far and not a single problem. I am very happy and I will be a patriot customer for the rest of my life.
02-12-2004, 01:39 PM
#39
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Originally Posted by Jason 98 TA
I guess I run them on my car so I'll post also
Patriot Ls6/Lq9 59cc chamber heads
Ran them on our black 98Z28 that won the heads/cam class at
the thunder shootout & was the only h/c car in attendance to go
10s during qualifications & eliminations with a 10.89!!
The car doesnt drink oil & I sold it to a gentlemen that gives the car
a good healthy workout
Terry is a great guy that goes out of his way to make sure everyone is happy. Terry's new valvesprings are second to none, we now offer them even with cam packages!!
Patriot Ls6/Lq9 59cc chamber heads
Ran them on our black 98Z28 that won the heads/cam class at
the thunder shootout & was the only h/c car in attendance to go
10s during qualifications & eliminations with a 10.89!!
The car doesnt drink oil & I sold it to a gentlemen that gives the car
a good healthy workout
Terry is a great guy that goes out of his way to make sure everyone is happy. Terry's new valvesprings are second to none, we now offer them even with cam packages!!
I would rather prevent than react...cost less!
Last edited by Magred2001vette; 02-12-2004 at 01:46 PM.
02-12-2004, 01:56 PM
#40
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Just got off the phone with Terry and my heads will be here Tuesday! 
Should have them on my dads vette by the end of the week and will post results then. My car will be at least two weeks before its running
Patriot Performance
Justin
Should have them on my dads vette by the end of the week and will post results then. My car will be at least two weeks before its running
Patriot PerformanceJustin