I purchased a pair of the early model 5.3 stg2 heads back in July. My buddy (Whistler) did the install and took the time to clearance the rockers which he caught right away along with flycutting the pistons. The first problem appeared immediately with smoke blowing out the exhaust and high oil consumption, and of which a Compression check and leakdown check were performed. The smoke turned out to be with a/some bad exhaust valve seals, which Terry quickly sent his updated valve seals along with labor costs to have them installed. After the valve seal swap no more smoke at all and oil consumption was normal. He later took care of the old springs too. I understand being that I got some of the early model heads that there were potential problems, but Terry worked it out. I had my share in working out the issues with their heads, and I know it kinda sucked, but I never had to get real pissed because of the customer service. And even so I would personally consider their current models if I were to buy heads again being that they have supported, fixed, and improved on their heads. The heads they offer now were improved from the early models.

 

I have a set of the LS6 style 59cc heads that I bought about 2 weeks ago. My Question is for PP. Are these a set of revised heads? Am I going to have valve seal problems? Spring problems? I don't want to have problems with a mod I've been so excided about installing.

 

1. No problems at all with the LS6 style heads. I do need some tuning as the 112 LSA cam is kicking my A4's ***

No complaints here.

 

The problem I had was on a set of heads that I bought about 7 weeks ago. If I'm not mistaken, Terry posted that he was doing some research on different seals and may be doing something different in the future with the teflon type he currently uses. From what I've been told, the teflon seals can be brittle and may crack if care is not taken when installing them.

BTW, Viton is a type of rubber made by DuPont. Fel-Pro uses this Viton rubber for their OEM replacement LS1 valve seals. It's supposed to be top of the line for sealing and longevity.

 

Admins and Posters: Perhaps due to the, ah, evolutionary, nature of Patriot's heads, since early-mid '03, I think it'd be extremely useful if ya'll could include (or go back and edit to add) a date of purchase (purchase not date of install) of your heads, to see if we can extract a pattern of reduced incidence of troublesome spots, or if there are noteworthy problems ongoing even on recently built heads.

Thought it'd be helpful to me and others.

Back to my hole,

-Jake

 

Why don't you just ask Terry when he fixed these problems, instead of guessing with purchase dates etc. I can tell you first hand from owning 2 sets of them that you will know if you have the old valvesprings or the new ones, your stock rockers will not work with the old springs, and you do NOT want to clearance them. I clearanced mine and snapped two of them in half, ended up buying a set of Yella Terra's. No big deal, now I have a nice set of rockers. The new heads have the smaller diameter springs which are gold in color, no probs reported so far from what I have seen. You can't expect a company to come out with a new product for the lowest price in the industry and not have to ever make changes and have the best product on the market from the get go. It takes time, and for the price and the customer service I have gotten from PP I will definately always go to them and recommend them.

-Sly

 

I have the Stage 2 5.3's. I have about 1K on them. I have no problems and the car runs fine. I just ordered the TSP 231/237 cam to match the heads. Only time will tell on how well it does.

 

just finished project. mods are patriot stage II ls6 style tsp 231 237 lg offrds
vararam 160 stat tci3800 stock 3:15 rear and b&b prt. the car was dynoed @ cartek and made 417 rwhp locked.

as far a problems(knock on wood) i have had none. as far as customer service that has been excellent .

 

PP LS6 s2, cc 224/224/581 408hp/393tq.

1000 miles so far and Down 2 quarts of oil already.

 

Burning OIL..............................

Got the 6.0 Liter LSQ9 Head 59 CC Heads in December 2003 and they were installed around January by a Great Shop in Lewisville, TX, Real Performance MotorSports. They did 3 sets of these heads.

These heads had the new CRANE springs but the old valve seals.

I BURNED at least 2 quarts of oil in about 1,200 miles and 600 of those miles I was breaking in a stock trannyand never getting on it.

I am not 100% satisfied at this point.

Terry was nice enough to send me some new metal valve seals just yesterday and I very much appreciate that , but I think it is fair to get some form of compensation for the labor I am going to have to spend MONEY$$ on ALL OVER AGAIN to get these valves swapped out.

If this is a known problem with a FEW of the earlier heads (like mine) that has now been openly addressed and the corrected, then they should take care of the few customers that this happened to.

The main reason I bought these heads because they were good heads at a good price and I was sold on the quality. Paying more money 6 weeks later to take apart and re-install something all over again that should have been been right in the 1st place could very well leave me with a bad feeling about my experience with these heads.

However, I am not vendor bashing at all and hope the resolution is one everyone is happy with, especially me

The Bandit................

 

all you have to do to replace the valve seals is pull the springs off, takes 3-4 hours if you only have 3 fingers on each hand, a little over two for anyone else

 

That is great and all, but I am not a mechanic (at least as going into the engine is concerned) and I have no experiece with pulling springs off my heads and replacing anything on the engine period.


The point is I already had these heads installed like I was supposed to by a professional and reputable shop and the person that did my car has done hundreds of heads and cam swaps.

It shouldn't be my job or responsibility as a customer to become a mechanic and try to fix problems on a new set of Heads that I just purchased less than 2 months ago with a NOW known problem. I know it is only a small problem (valve selas) and is easily fixed, so that is all I am asking. As I said before, I am not bashing at all am sure they will step up to the plate on this. I was just stating my personal case.

Thanks

 

its not really a known problem, some have it and some dont. im running the old valve seals now and have no problems

i just have to ask, how can you have a car with all the mods in your sig, and have no interest in working on it yourself. ive always been curious with this. there are plenty of online guides that could walk you through a spring swap no problem

 

Yes, it is a know problem. If it wasn't why did Patriot switch these seals to a Different ONE if it wasn't? I am not saying the seals on every set of heads was a problem, which is GOOD for all of us. But YES, some of us Had a real problem and I never burned oil before and all I did was add heads and headers.
I would love to work on my car and do the basic stuff, shocks, sway bars, intake, exhaust, etc. However, I leave the engine alone...

 

According to Terry back when i was called about the valves themselves - their tests came back and something like 30% were failing and they didnt know which ones. So he called around and offered to replace them.

But to answer your question - my car is strapped with all the bolt-ons. I have either done or been involved in everything that has taken place. However, I am not an expert by any means on doing internal mods. I am not sure of myself when it comes to cams and checking P/V clearances, etc. I am also not comfortable in checking spring pressures or knowing how to prevent valves from dropping when doing a cam swap, etc. I know the basis and like I said - have helped.

In addition, I dont own all the equipment I need. I dont have an air compressor to pump up the cylinders, etc. I dont have any air tools to make the job go quicker and I dont own a spring compressor capable of pulling dual springs. Point being is that when performing significant work that requires some expertise - I make sure that I take it somewhere where the person KNOWS what they are doing and I take the oppertunity to learn. But going to a speed shop or renting a garage or having a performance part mechanic do the work all costs money. Pulling the heads to replace the valves basically means another head swap (whats the going rate?). Nearly 2/3 of the price for a cam change is due to swapping the springs since it can be quite time consuming (how much is a cam swap?). What about the incedentals such as more oil, more gaskets, head studs if you've had to do it more then once, a second trip to the dyno the get tuned? When you considering purchasing something especially of high dollar which requires additional labor costs - these things become a concern and are certainly factored into your consideration of this item.

 

Back in the day,I had a couple of valves that the tip was not as hard as they should be.I threw away $12,000 worth of valves because I would not take the risk of running them.I had less than 10 sets of heads that I called people and offered to replaced the valves.I do not know if they were bad or not,I just replaced them.All of this stuff is way old,I no longer install any of these products.

 

I agree Terry. And I apologize if I came across as sounding accusational. The gentleman above asked about if this was a known issue and I just posted about our conversation. It does say alot that you called me and others and informed them as soon as you knew of the potential problem as one turn of the key could have meant complete engine loss. And is does say alot to offer a replacement set of valves. My point I was trying to make is that (and herein is where alot of my concern/issue is with a lot of this) while you replaced the valves that were coming up subpar on tests - these tests should have been done and your heads should have been tested prior to being sold. I understand that development continues after the intial release of the heads to the market (ie - your revised exhaust chamber, or TEA's competition finished heads, that improve performance of the head themselves). But these (in my opinion) were design flaws in a manner of speaking (shimmed springs), or inferior products (valves/springs breaking), or fitment issues (rocker/spring) that should have been determined and corrected prior to being released and potentially jeaopardizing someones engine. I understand from reading your responses that hopefully all of these issues were addressed and corrected so people dont have to deal with circumstances like my own. But in the same respect - that just puts me in the frame of mind that what went on my car was still in the research and development phase and I am sure you can understand where the frustration comes from. As I said before - I am no way trying to bash you or Patriot. Its just that when I look back on the situation - I feel like I really dodged a bullet with the heads and thankfully through reading posts on this board, I was allowed to catch certain issues before it was too late. And as a consumer who approached you stating that I was new the "cylinder head game" - I felt that a lot of the promises were left unfulfilled and I walked away thinking about "how bad it could have gotten."

 

Terry is very fair and I have spoken with him once briefly. I do not anticipate any problems at all and I am sure we will resolve this with NO problems and I will definately support patriot here and on the Corvette Forum where there is a lot of buzz about these heads,

As i said before, it is not problem that the 1st few heads had some minor problems, but just take care of those people in a fair way and everyone wins. patriot sells more heads and they have a happy customer that promotes their products. I mean sales now a days are largely based on customer referals to friends and positve experiences shared with fellow gear heads like all of us.

Thanks Guys

P.S. I don't have all those tools handy in my garage either. Hell it takes me 1 hour to get my car on 4 jackstands because it is so low and I am doing everything manually and driving up on board etc.

 

So far it appears...

11 people have replied without issues with the PP heads.

12 people have replied with some form of issue with PP heads. Counted high oil consuption as an issue.

 

Keep this on topic please. Go to PMs for the "dirty" talk

thanks,
Chris