Patriot Performance flow numbers
02-15-2004, 10:31 AM
#61
TECH Fanatic
Originally Posted by 99 Black Bird T/A
If PP made a quality product why in the last year...
bad valves
bad springs
retainer issue
oil consumption issue
seats that fall out of the heads
changing from teflon to stock or viton valve seals
just starting to finally machine the chambers on 5.7 heads
bowl clean up but not checking on the bench to see if the heads flow correctly until last week.
That stuff is obvious for the most part and should have checked from day one when PP opened the doors. They are still just learning to get around too doing it. That's a stout list of issues. It's good Terry is working to correct this stuff but seems like PP should have worked harder to correct issues before sending this stuff to customers.
When that sort of thing is taken care of I too think the negative stuff about PP will stop.
bad valves
bad springs
retainer issue
oil consumption issue
seats that fall out of the heads
changing from teflon to stock or viton valve seals
just starting to finally machine the chambers on 5.7 heads
bowl clean up but not checking on the bench to see if the heads flow correctly until last week.
That stuff is obvious for the most part and should have checked from day one when PP opened the doors. They are still just learning to get around too doing it. That's a stout list of issues. It's good Terry is working to correct this stuff but seems like PP should have worked harder to correct issues before sending this stuff to customers.
When that sort of thing is taken care of I too think the negative stuff about PP will stop.
I have always flow tested heads,just not every set.
Bad valves- This less than 10 sets.I guess you missed the part where i said I trashed $12,000 dollars worth of these.This is no longer an issue
Bad Springs- All of these were 1.46 dia.This is no longer an issue.The current "GOLD" spring IMO is the best you can buy.
Retainer Issue-I tested in house and they cleared.In some others they did not.This is no longer an issue.
All of the above issue are very old.
Oil consumption-Its a matter of seals.I was buying teflon.I have used the for years in SBC with no problem.They are not working as well as I like in the LS1,so I changed to a viton.
Dropping seats-The only seat I know that came out was a factory 5.7 head.
I am working on machining the 5.7 chamber.
Like I stated before,I have always flow tested heads.
Every cylinder head company has its own problems.I am working very hard to offer the very best product available,regardless of price.
This is way off the original topic.Lets go back to the original topic.
02-15-2004, 10:43 AM
#62
and I will add, Terry's company along with AFR are investing in the new super 7 locks as standard on their heads once we are shipping. When Terry is faced with a problem he addresses it quickley and goes on. ..that is rare in this industry.
Brian, did that set of heads that went to Cananda. . . did they go to Davenport? Just wondering because that is the company doing a cam comparison among 4 companies including my "brown box camshaft."
Chris
Brian, did that set of heads that went to Cananda. . . did they go to Davenport? Just wondering because that is the company doing a cam comparison among 4 companies including my "brown box camshaft."
Chris
02-15-2004, 02:20 PM
#63
6 Second Club Moderator
Thread Starter
iTrader: (7)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Lombard .IL
Posts: 3,682
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
PP- Tetrry, The only way to understand this nonsense. How would you feel if you paid $800.00 plus a $1400.00 core totaling $2200.00 MORE for a set of heads. Wouldn't you be pissed off? All I was trying to state in this post... That in MY case with the heads so far I am happy! Also, I flowed on the same bench as the Tea head because it also is a good head to eliminate any "bad flow bench" theory. It wasn't to say Tea heads are bad! Oh well I guess I should have known better.
02-15-2004, 03:09 PM
#65
TECH Veteran
iTrader: (33)
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Port Richey
Posts: 4,266
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by LASTLS1
PP- Tetrry, The only way to understand this nonsense. How would you feel if you paid $800.00 plus a $1400.00 core totaling $2200.00 MORE for a set of heads. Wouldn't you be pissed off? All I was trying to state in this post... That in MY case with the heads so far I am happy! Also, I flowed on the same bench as the Tea head because it also is a good head to eliminate any "bad flow bench" theory. It wasn't to say Tea heads are bad! Oh well I guess I should have known better.
heads and are setup for the 3.905 bore. And they were flowed on a 3.90 bore fixture. The TEA heads you speak of apparently were also 6.0 cores and setup for a 4.0 bore and flowed on a 3.90 fixture. You will get skewed #s that way. So the comparison seems to be flawed.
Should have just posted your own head flow #s. They are good enough. Be sure to post some dyno #s and track times when you get these headson
02-15-2004, 04:36 PM
#66
TECH Fanatic
Patriot Heads
Originally Posted by 383LQ4SS
Well..just by bringing TEA heads in your thread you did open it up to debate immediately. Im not sure if Im understanding all the finer points brought up by Brian Tooley or Terry. But it seems you compared apples to oranges and then posted partial info. I believe you said both heads are the same castings? Terry uses the 6.0 cores, welds the chambers for the LS6 "style"
heads and are setup for the 3.905 bore. And they were flowed on a 3.90 bore fixture. The TEA heads you speak of apparently were also 6.0 cores and setup for a 4.0 bore and flowed on a 3.90 fixture. You will get skewed #s that way. So the comparison seems to be flawed.
Should have just posted your own head flow #s. They are good enough. Be sure to post some dyno #s and track times when you get these headson
heads and are setup for the 3.905 bore. And they were flowed on a 3.90 bore fixture. The TEA heads you speak of apparently were also 6.0 cores and setup for a 4.0 bore and flowed on a 3.90 fixture. You will get skewed #s that way. So the comparison seems to be flawed.
Should have just posted your own head flow #s. They are good enough. Be sure to post some dyno #s and track times when you get these headson
From what I was told of the flow numbers,all 3 sets of heads were tested on a 4.0 bore size under the same test conditions.I stated earlier that the chamber on the Patriot head was setup for a 3.905 bore,it was tested on a 4.0 bore.If the chamber had been unshouded for a 4.0 bore it would have flowed better.If the TEA head was setup for a 4.0 bore fine,it was tested on a 4.0 bore.
02-15-2004, 04:52 PM
#67
Originally Posted by TVWilkes
I have always flow tested heads,just not every set.
Bad valves- This less than 10 sets.I guess you missed the part where i said I trashed $12,000 dollars worth of these.This is no longer an issue
Bad Springs- All of these were 1.46 dia.This is no longer an issue.The current "GOLD" spring IMO is the best you can buy.
Retainer Issue-I tested in house and they cleared.In some others they did not.This is no longer an issue.
All of the above issue are very old.
Oil consumption-Its a matter of seals.I was buying teflon.I have used the for years in SBC with no problem.They are not working as well as I like in the LS1,so I changed to a viton.
Dropping seats-The only seat I know that came out was a factory 5.7 head.
I am working on machining the 5.7 chamber.
Like I stated before,I have always flow tested heads.
Every cylinder head company has its own problems.I am working very hard to offer the very best product available,regardless of price.
This is way off the original topic.Lets go back to the original topic.
Bad valves- This less than 10 sets.I guess you missed the part where i said I trashed $12,000 dollars worth of these.This is no longer an issue
Bad Springs- All of these were 1.46 dia.This is no longer an issue.The current "GOLD" spring IMO is the best you can buy.
Retainer Issue-I tested in house and they cleared.In some others they did not.This is no longer an issue.
All of the above issue are very old.
Oil consumption-Its a matter of seals.I was buying teflon.I have used the for years in SBC with no problem.They are not working as well as I like in the LS1,so I changed to a viton.
Dropping seats-The only seat I know that came out was a factory 5.7 head.
I am working on machining the 5.7 chamber.
Like I stated before,I have always flow tested heads.
Every cylinder head company has its own problems.I am working very hard to offer the very best product available,regardless of price.
This is way off the original topic.Lets go back to the original topic.
Your right the thread is about PP flow numbers not about PP quality.
I mentioned in an earlier post regarding your willingness to send heads out for flow testing, I'm willing to test a set PP LS6 style heads and post the objective results.
Are you interested?
02-15-2004, 05:23 PM
#68
TECH Veteran
iTrader: (33)
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Port Richey
Posts: 4,266
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by TVWilkes
From what I was told of the flow numbers,all 3 sets of heads were tested on a 4.0 bore size under the same test conditions.I stated earlier that the chamber on the Patriot head was setup for a 3.905 bore,it was tested on a 4.0 bore.If the chamber had been unshouded for a 4.0 bore it would have flowed better.If the TEA head was setup for a 4.0 bore fine,it was tested on a 4.0 bore.
So how will testing a head setup with a 3.905 bore be affected by flowing with a larger fixture like a 4.0 inch bore? Wont that inflate flow #s a bit? From all feedback I have heard flowing a head setup for a 3.90 bore on a larger fixture such as a 4.0 bore will result in inflated #s of 5-15 cfm especially in the midlift #s. Unless of course that particular head was going to be bolted to a motor with a 4.0 bore and he just wanted to see how it would flow on his combo.
Either way. It just seems like a less than stellar comparison and apples to oranges.
02-15-2004, 05:29 PM
#69
[QUOTE=LASTLS1 BTW it out flowed his head by 51 CFM at .600!!!!!! It also out flowed the OTHER head. .[/QUOTE]
What were te specifics on HIS head? Sounds like it musta been a stock LS6 casting to only flow 269@.600........
Congrats on your flow #s. Good flow #s ALWAYS mean good rwhp and good rwhp ALWAYS mean awesome track times.........
What were te specifics on HIS head? Sounds like it musta been a stock LS6 casting to only flow 269@.600........
Congrats on your flow #s. Good flow #s ALWAYS mean good rwhp and good rwhp ALWAYS mean awesome track times.........
