DarkFox118

iTrader: (7)

Ok, been lurking, reading, learning, trying to figure out the best route here.

I admit I'm quite frustrated. Not because I can't find what I'm looking for but I can't find an affordable way to do it.

So here's the basics:

car: 2000 camaro Z28, the ls1 is "bad." It runs, but it has some issues, and I just want to replace it with another fresh motor. I'm not concerned about re-using this one, only components from this one like accessory drive brackets wire harness ecu etc. I'm not AGAINST it, I just know it's down time. So it has to be all or nothing.

goal: street friendly A4 friendly daily driver emissions legal 430FWHP. This should put me close to 400RWHP, and if the stock camaro is REALLY in the low 14s (I beg to differ, mine is about as fast as a corolla right now..) then this should be a nice power increase to put it perhaps 14 flat or high 13s, which should be plenty for daily driving/fun weekend cruising.

Everywhere I go I'm finding $6000 for long blocks and $10,000 for complete engines.. and perhaps I'm being a cheapskate, but that seems absurd for such low power. If I'm going to spend $10,000 on a motor (JUST the motor...) I'd be expecting if not demanding 500-600FWHP. Am I wrong to think this way?

Options I've considered:

*lq4/9 takeout with new heads, cam, intake. This would run probably close to $5k from what I'm gathering. I'd want a low mileage block (~50k or less) as I wouldn't trust anything more than that to be reliable. I'd like another 100k+ miles out of this car without having to do this again. The good thing is these blocks are everywhere and they are CHEAP. The bad thing is they're iron and the ones up north look like the titanic, and generally have well over 100k miles on them, which I can't buy with any confidence.

*rebuild the existing ls1. I'm being told this will run about $5000, but will not produce this kind of power. It seems the shops think the cam will have to be too aggressive to achieve this. they talk about stroking it and re-sleeving it. I'm not all that interested in the added cost of all this.

*buy a GM crate ls1, costs about $5k, straight drop in, won't achieve my power goals. Would require a new cam, possibly intake and/or head work to reach the power levels I'm trying to get, so we'd have to figure.. $7k+ for this route in total for the motor/power goal.

*take-out ls3 from the new camaro, achieves power goals, but requires a lot of custom work in the car to get it to work. (fuel system, reluctor wheel issue, cam position sensor.. I have an A4 so I'd have to use my existing ECU or get an external controller for the A4.. it's too much trouble.) Not to mention cost. These motors I've sen as high as $9000, though they have very low mileage at that price.

*Otherwise.. I'm at the mercy of rod shops that want to charge me $4500 for a short block. Sure, it'll be a great short block, rock solid to 800hp... but I can't finish the motor. I'll have a hunk of iron/aluminum sitting in my garage for 2 years saving up to buy simple parts to make the thing run. If I get a motor from a shop, I want it to be as near drop-in as I can get it.

I don't have a dollar value for my budget, but I can tell you I start thinking it's "too expensive" right around $5000 for anything short of a complete motor. If I can't be up and running after $5k I don't think I'm all that interested.

Am I dreaming?? Anything worth doing is worth doing right.and if this can't be done.. then well perhaps I need to look at this as a 5+ year project instead of a 1-2 year like I had initially hoped.

Oh, and since people may ask, what's wrong with my stock engine? Piston slap for one, possibly bad compression? (no power.. this car's supposed to be a mid 14 sec 1/4 mile car. Feels like a pickup truck.) valve noise at 1500rpm and at idle. I have confidence the block is fine, but well piston slap within it self is unacceptable to me. This alone means the stock engine would need rebuilding.

TL;DR crowd: 2000 camaro, ls1 is "blown" want 430FWHP in this car for $5k am I nuts?

babbage1109

iTrader: (11)

You could buy a heads cam and intake works tune for 5k and reach your goals. Depending on the cam. 230 ish

itsslow98

iTrader: (18)

lq4, l92 heads, healthy cam, fast 102 and injectors and youll be making damn close to 500rwhp.

DarkFox118

iTrader: (7)

Thanks guys. Couple of things to note here.. I cannot use my stock ls1 in it's current form for ANY power mods, so it has to be replaced or rebuilt.

The LQ4 idea seems the most affordable, but it seems that I need a 24x reluctor wheel lq4/9 which means I need an older one, making a low mileage one very rare/expensive.

custom builds put the short block in the 3-4k range. I don't know that I can finish the top end for 1-2k if I include TB intake injectors etc.

If my budget is unreasonably low then I'll have to adjust it/give up on this project all together. but I need to decide that now, before I spend a penny.

thunderstruck507

iTrader: (18)

You should be able to pick up a rebuilt ls1 for under $2k with your core.

400rwhp should put your car in the 11s in the 1/4, if you run in the 14s with 400rwhp you need to sell your car

your car should run in the 13s bone stock even in humid/hot air

Always2Slow

iTrader: (8)

Why is your ls1 not usable? Did you take it out and inspect it or even compression test it yet? I think you can make a 347 for cheap or go the lq4 route.

DarkFox118

iTrader: (7)

I have not had a compression check done yet on the current ls1, but at minimum, it has rather loud piston slap at startup and the car has no power at all.. leading me to believe there's a compression issue.

I'm doing a tune-up this weekend, new plugs n wires, new fuel filter, just changed the oil last weekend, cleaned the TB, MAF, got a new filter, drives better, but I still have to work to outrun a toyota corolla from a redlight. (needed her lane.. almost lost it.)

There's a lot of valve noise at 1500 rpm, starts at 1400 goes away at 1600, also has what I would call a "clapping/slapping" type of noise from the valves (hopefully this makes sense.. I've heard this before on a lot of cars..) all the time. Makes me wonder if it's eating the cam/block with valve problems. No inspection yet, but I figured rather than spending hundreds on having shops inspect.. I'd just shoot for gold and get a replacement.

$2k is a lot more reasonable. When I spoke with a local shop about having it rebuilt to stock specs they quoted me $5k though, so.. I haven't looked much farther. IIRC they charge you $2k just to pull and replace at that place. I COULD pull it myself.. if I could get the front of my car 6' in the air..

Bramlok

iTrader: (7)

You keep talking about low compression but have no clue for sure because it hasn't been tested yet. Your lack of power could be caused by any number of things. Many LS1s have piston slap noise without affecting performance. I think you're condemning your block without even having tested or checking it out. I think your goals are easily attainable for $5000 or less.

DarkFox118

iTrader: (7)

Well, you're right. but I've played this game with older cars before where you fix a small piece here and there, spend tons of money on diagnostics etc. I bought this car as a project, though, I knew it was a bit slow in the test drive, the owner had warmed it up so I did not hear the piston slap issue.

If I could re-use the bottom end where is as is, I could EASILY obtain my goals for well under $5k. More like 2 or 3.

I'm going to continue to work on this engine and do the much needed tune-up type things as I research replacements. I need however to find the best path to do this in anticipation, as I somehow doubt that I'm going to find that new plugs are wires was all it needed.

Basically, plan A is to keep running this motor and pray to the giant spaghetti monster that piston slap is the only problem here, and that new heads and a cam are all it needs to be a top notch motor for another 100k miles.

Plan B, is to replace it.

I'm just trying to make sure I'm prepared is all.

Bramlok

iTrader: (7)

I hear what you're saying. I've bought LS1 fbodys brand new and they had piston slap. It's just somthing LS1s do. But try and figure out what your drivability problem is first. Could be a fuel problem. You said it was an A4, it could be a trans problem as well. Even if it's not running right it still shouldn't br as slow as a Corolla as you described.

ANTICOP RAM AIR

iTrader: (7)

OP, you need to fix your post.. If youre looking for 430 FWHP, then there is NO cheap way of doing it.... Just sayin...

DarkFox118

iTrader: (7)

Well, it doesn't want to rev. Prior to doing the MAF and TB clean the car would actually stutter like you took your foot off the gas, rpms would coast down slowly, you mash the gas more and it'd resume. One time it did this to me 5 times trying to get to 60 from a stop. I nearly had it floored by the time I got to 60.

After the TB and MAF cleaning the car idles about 200rpm higher when cold and throttle response is MUCH better. When it DOES rev it seems to move ok, but getting the engine to rev is difficult. It revs very slowly.

I've done air, now I'm working on fuel and spark this weekend. We'll see, but I'm not holding my breath.

I feel like the stock bottom end of a stock 346 should be able to handle 430FWHP yes? If I do a rebuild I could just do a stock one? No frills? That would save a lot of money on this build.

edit: I mean fly-wheel, not front wheel

ANTICOP RAM AIR

iTrader: (7)

^ I'll go with that...

430ish crank hp can be had with a full exhaust, lid, ls6 top end and a tune.

nik1703

lol. this is true.