99 Black Bird T/A

iTrader: (4)

I bought a set of used LS6 Head JPR Stage 1 porting ~ 2 years old. Before anyone gets upset these heads had stock LS6 01 valves.

Int ......LS6....LS6 Manifold.... LS6 Ex
.100......62.2.... 61.7............... 51.9
.200.....138.5....135.7............ 111.3
.300.. ..199.6... 187.9 ............149.2
.400... .239.7.... 222.0... ........177.2
.500..... 272.4.... 234.7........... 194.0
.550..... 284.4... 239.7... .........196.2
.600..... 269.7... 241.5............ 198.7

These heads made peak 445-448 rwhp with a 231/236 XE-R cam. Joe said they would flow ~280-285 and they did. However, at some points these heads flow almost stock LS6 numbers.

The key point IMO is my JPR's lost ~44 cfm of flow thru the LS6 intake at .550 lift. With a little tweaking and new valves the real potential could be unleashed.

For you guys that have having your JPR's tested have them flowed with your LS6 intake in place. This should give you a better picture of what the heads are really able to do than just looking at raw intake flow data. Fixing the flow issues may be as simple as a fresh valve job.

9T9BlueTA

iTrader: (2)

Mike about the tuning. Try getting a hold of PCMFORLESS and see if he has your file. I know most shops that tune keep the customers file. If you want lower timing or have questions about the tune I would ask them since I am pretty sure they are doing the tuning for JD's. I am going to have my car retuned by NOGO at eastside because I have a few other issues and I want to replace the injectors. I might even get a hold of NOGO before then and send him my file and see what he thinks of it if he is willing to look at it.

When I talked to Joe and told him my concerns about the head flow numbers he said I could come there and he would pull my heads and flow them right in front of me if I wanted him too. If for some reason they didnt flow right he would fix them.

Its a tough decesion I know but I have seen posts by people with stage II heads and a cam almost as big as yours making the same power or less. Its always troubling to wonder what if you changed the heads and put out the same number or possibly less for that matter. I am waiting to see what these rash of big number cars do for track times and MPH also before I judge anything.

Richie Carbone

iTrader: (3)

Mike I know how you feel, I had issues with my H/C package at first and it took a while to get them sorted out. Just don't get bummed about modding because some shady SOB duped you, we've all been there I have been duped many times but I guess the only way to learn is to make mistakes but don't make the same mistake twice.

If I had to go to a shop owners house to wake him up to work on my car after a 1200 + mile road trip I would have turned right around and drove back to Florida.

I'm sorry for your troubles, but your dealings with JPR will make you wiser with your decisions in the future.

It just sucks that in this day and age it is hard to find an honest person to deal with and that the honest ones are the exception to the rule, it should be the other way around.

Hey Vince I'm happy to see you have Mike's back. If I need someone to watch my back you'll be the first person I'd call.
Later guys I need to get up @ 7:00 AM

RESTOMAN

mike--

i don't think this was a good thread,but this is what people do now instead of calling in person i guess.

i thought joe prince said you could of sent the engine up and cylinder heads when you had a problem,because i said he could do it here.
it would of been repaired here at no charge just like he said he would,and he would of looked at the heads.

flow benches and dynos are tools not gospel just so you understand that too.
they help when doing performance work.

i can't believe your heads flow that low and still make the power,but it is possible i guess.

to be honest with you,i really don't want him doing anything with those heads here,nor do i want to be involved--i tried the first time to help you out and was letting joe do the repairs here,but i can't be constantly having my ***** crushed.

sorry i can't help you--

joe d.

VINCE

iTrader: (1)

Bear bragging about your current 427ci is silly? When your old S2 setup put down 411rwhp thru a 12 bolt and a 4400 converter was big numbers to all of us when it happened. Now you are saying it is silly? We are not comparing your old 346ci dyno numbers by todays standards.

When someone does research on a company they use that companies customer base and customer comments to make a decision if they do not have any direct physical contact with the company. It's called "Word of Mouth Advertising." If this is not how it is done please correct me.

Bear

iTrader: (1)

I hear ya. Bragging about my 427 is ok. Bragging about my old setup is, I guess ok. I was NEVER happy with the car till the very last day when it blew up. Joe knew this. We FINALLY hit solid 11's at 3700+ raceweight. I guess this is not Joes fault either. Joe said at 3400 pounds it would run 11.3's. If u do the math I guess it would have. I dont know. I am crazy. Please, brag all u want, maybe we can get JPR back in good business standings. Said it before say it again, I have had good luck with Joe and his setups, just bad luck/experiences with him and installing.

VINCE

iTrader: (1)

Well you and I both carry a heavy package. Trying to run the times our peers run requires a COLONEL weight reduction package. At this time I do not want to drop that much weight off my car. Fix that front seal tranny leak and run some good times for us 3700 plus lb cars..

ezss

Just for the record, I picked up 23rwhp/10rwtq when I switched from my old ARE S2 heads that had been reworked to Joe's Heads, nothing else having changed other than yella terras. (same cam and everything else). I would be very interested to see a third test on Mike K's heads, or a test of stock heads on the bench where you just had them tested.

I thought the florida guys said no one ever made over 420 range on the dynoes down there h/c, now all of sudden there are guys with 430-455 on just cam? I must have missed something on that one -- any links or anything I can check out?

I know how you feel mike, i am so dubious now of even keeping my car-- just when I think things are straight I read this. I really want to believe that my car is going to be awesome, but already Im a bit concerned --the thing keeps throwing SES and wont idle for sh*t, and I havent driven it now in like 3 weeks because of weather. The CR/milling also is of great concern also.

VINCE

iTrader: (1)

"Sounds like you are taking things I have said out of context. My car made 423rwhp with old TEA Stage I's and 4.10's. Mike K. is running 3.42's, higher compression, LARGER CAM, and OBVIOUSLY more timing than TELCO. Mike K. also has longtubes and a true dual system to my Macs and Y-pipe with SLP Dual Dual. Take out my 4.10's and put 3.42's back in and I am right at 430rwhp. Add more timing and more compression. Add Kook Longtubes and a free flowing catback and I think I can get 445rwhp and that is w/out changing my FMS-9 cam. When I mentioned 420 to 455rwhp for cam only cars I did not say down here in FLORIDA. If you've kept up with the cars on this board you will see about a handful of cam only cars making 420 to 455rwhp.

Hmmmmm. Several of us mentioned to you to go elsewhere after the first incident, but you chose to pay more money and get it fixed with you know who. I am not surprised to hear you still have problems.

BLK01WS6

It's a shame to see stuff like this. I know Joe is working hard to make everything right. We finally got my car done. It now idles great. We put in a slightly smaller cam, and made 8 less peak HP, but made a lot more torque...under the curve. I am done with it though. It was such a PITA to get it right...I put my car up for sale yesterday. 4 days of having it run right...I'm buying a Z06 to replace it. I hope everything works out for you guys the way it worked out for me. I know how frustrating it can be.

VINCE

iTrader: (1)

Those Z06's look awesome..

Bear

iTrader: (1)

My car is for sale as well. $25k AS IS all my parts and everything. With a little giggle juice and some weight removed it is a 9 sec car.

ezss

Ok gotcha, I thought you were saying cars on forida dynos making that power cam only. I have seen some high cam only dyno numbers, but they are failry radical setups in most cases. You cant really add up power numbers that way though, you may gain nothing going to longtubes and dual exhaust, I have seen several cases where people actually lost power going from macs to longtubes. In any case I understand your point. I would still like to see those heads flowed on another bench.


Well so far they are minor problems, the codes look like very similar codes I had before, O2 sensor (P1153) and TPS (P0121), that the tune, new O2s, and code deletion was supposed to take care of. The idle problem is a new one. The car feels solid though and there is no smoke or oil problem in my limited driving.

If you want to know why my car was fixed at JD's, send me an email at ezerner@yahoo.com or a pm. I dont want to get into a non-post related conversation.

ezss

Bear Im really saddened to hear this after everything you went through...shoot me an email or give me a call if you can.

VINCE

iTrader: (1)

Email sent..

PCMFORLESS

EZ,
I've been seeing the 1153 and 1133 codes for insufficient O2 activity on Longtubed cars. It's not a problem and I can delete it for you. I can also do a little tweak to the 121 code that BLK01WS6 shared with me and seems to work well. I also want to do a crank positiion relearn on your car. After we replaced a bad crank position sensor on BLK01WS6's car and did the crank relearn I was able to dial in the idle easily. I wonder if yours is giving me the same fits.
BLK01WS6, Bear, and EZ, all of your cars have a very safe timing curve in them. JD and I did testing and found the cars will make a little more power if you push the envelope on timing, but not enough to make it worth pushing the timing. In most areas of the curve your timing at WOT is only 2-3 degrees above stock. Air fuels were also at a very safe 12.6 to 12.8 to 1. We did some testing on this as well and found that pushing the envelope here as well to the 13 to 1 wasn't worth much if any in gains.

Bear

iTrader: (1)

Brain, I AM VERY HAPPY with my tune. The car runs AWESOME for a 242 cam. Yeah it stalls every now & then, but nothing I cant see as being "normal". Good Job, thanks for keeping the timing down. JD told me abut the extra 2 or 3 or 4 degrees of timing, but also about the insignificant gain I also got. I am way happier this way than maxed out on all points. Car seems still a little "scary" for me. Not much room here on LI to get that thing humming.

PCMFORLESS

Bear,
Thanks, I am glad to hear you are enjoying it. Your car is a beast. When Joe D. and I took it out for driveability testing I had him open it up as I had to verify the 1-2 shift points. It had me pinned in the seat. If I could fit my fat a$$ in an F-body easier I would definitely buy your car. Granted more cam would have made more peak HP, but as I have learned with the heavy Impala SS Peak HP is what you brag about, but torque and power under the curve is what makes the car go.
I used to have to get more agressive with the timing as guys wanted every last drop, but backing off a little to keep the car real safe is the way to go.
Can't wait to see all you guys at the track.
I'll be in the Blue Silverado SS that we are bolting heads and cam onto right now
Later,
Bryan

11 Bravo

iTrader: (3)

I dream of the day when I have that experience with a 427. The dream keeps getting longer and longer.

PCMFORLESS

The first time you mash that go pedal it will be worth the wait