Do I need rod bolts?
I agree.
A little side note, I built a LS/Vtec motor years ago in my turbo integra, the bottom end's redline was 6800 (all factory parts with over 140k miles), I spun that motor AT MINIMUM once a day to 8000, 2 years and a good 20k or so miles later it spun a rod bearing running 8000 RPM in 5th gear, that was a long long pull at that RPM, but I later found out there was only 2 quarts of oil in the motor, I still to this day put my money on the low oil being the cause of the spun bearing.
It seems that LS1 rod bolts are a bit less tolerant, but are in fact tolerant. I have spun mine to 6700-6800 on many many occasions and now have 187xxx miles on it and it is doing just fine.
A little side note, I built a LS/Vtec motor years ago in my turbo integra, the bottom end's redline was 6800 (all factory parts with over 140k miles), I spun that motor AT MINIMUM once a day to 8000, 2 years and a good 20k or so miles later it spun a rod bearing running 8000 RPM in 5th gear, that was a long long pull at that RPM, but I later found out there was only 2 quarts of oil in the motor, I still to this day put my money on the low oil being the cause of the spun bearing.
It seems that LS1 rod bolts are a bit less tolerant, but are in fact tolerant. I have spun mine to 6700-6800 on many many occasions and now have 187xxx miles on it and it is doing just fine.
I don't think its ok to run a 98 rod bolts to 7200 rpms at all. I said 6500 was the limit I would put them at. I mentioned 7200 rpms as an example of how they are stronger then you give them credit for. There's a big difference between 7200 and 6500 those rod bolts in my cousins 98 would have been fine at 6500. Hell the op doesn't even wanna spin that high yet you act like he needs to drop 200 on rod bolts when he's only setting the rev limiter 100rpm over stock.
Last edited by mtuggle86; May 4, 2011 at 05:48 PM.
I can tell you from experience, that its a very cheap option, and honestly should be done. I have an 01, and was one of those "no need to get rod bolts, i can spin this thing to 6800 all day, after all some go to 7000" and guess what? Rod bolt broke at the top of second gear, and ruined literally everything internal on the motor. Cracked the block, put 2 holes in it, smashed the heads, killed the cam and lifters. You get the picture. From now on for this guy, rod bolts are a very feasible, and necessary option.
im not saying they arent tolerant, or will fail the first time you spin it that high, but why would you put your engine at risk just to save a few bucks and some of your time? i would understand if it was a 2 thousand dollar mod, but its not. and anyone who says its not worth it, or you will be fine is either a serious cheap skate, or ignorant. there is NO reason to not upgrade, even "your not spinning it THAT high" thats not an excuse.
I didn't do them in that integra motor I mentioned because you have to resize the rods on that motor, also the block only cost me $400 and I had another one, and I lived less than an 1/8th mile from work so I didn't care, funny when you don't care it will last just about forever.
But on my Camaro, I personally am not going to do rod bolts and it potentially misshape the cap from increased clamping force and have that ruin my motor either. I will just keep my rev limiter a couple hundred RPM's less instead. Again, I don't see why people get so caught up in a couple hundred RPM's, it's not going to make the car night and day..
I can assure you that there was no other problem. I used to have pictures of it on here somewhere, but that has been some time ago.
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Verdad Gallardo are you positive something else didn't give first and break it thats just not there MO to break and not stretch first. If it did just break Id say you just got one with a defect in it.
I can tell you from experience, that its a very cheap option, and honestly should be done. I have an 01, and was one of those "no need to get rod bolts, i can spin this thing to 6800 all day, after all some go to 7000" and guess what? Rod bolt broke at the top of second gear, and ruined literally everything internal on the motor. Cracked the block, put 2 holes in it, smashed the heads, killed the cam and lifters. You get the picture. From now on for this guy, rod bolts are a very feasible, and necessary option.
Look right here in your own words #8 post down you say yours broke spinning 7100rpms not 6800. That's a big difference in pressure believe it or not.https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...ure-limit.html
Look right here in this thread at your own words...6300 to 6800 not a big difference...now re read your last post...
I understand totally where your coming from man. I know it is not needed at that particular rpm, but...there is no reason not to. And they are not 200 bucks. I believe I paid just shy of 100 shipped for mine. Not 100 percent sure but I think they are 89 bucks new.
Now, it is neccessary to resize the rods using arp bolts, but katech bolts it is not neccessary. I understand they are on back order but if you want rod bolts and don't want to resize, your going to have to wait.
Regardless of the sitiuation, I'm not into risking my entire engine because I didn't want to spend an extra 100 bucks and some time on the bolts. If your not willing to spend that extra 100 bucks because you think you don't need them, then you don't need a cam, or heads or whatever else you have that requires you to spinit higher. Its just stupid.
You wouldn't put heads cam nitrous etc on your car and not do headers and full exhaust would you?
I understand totally where your coming from man. I know it is not needed at that particular rpm, but...there is no reason not to. And they are not 200 bucks. I believe I paid just shy of 100 shipped for mine. Not 100 percent sure but I think they are 89 bucks new.
Now, it is neccessary to resize the rods using arp bolts, but katech bolts it is not neccessary. I understand they are on back order but if you want rod bolts and don't want to resize, your going to have to wait.
Regardless of the sitiuation, I'm not into risking my entire engine because I didn't want to spend an extra 100 bucks and some time on the bolts. If your not willing to spend that extra 100 bucks because you think you don't need them, then you don't need a cam, or heads or whatever else you have that requires you to spinit higher. Its just stupid.
You wouldn't put heads cam nitrous etc on your car and not do headers and full exhaust would you?
Look right here in this thread at your own words...6300 to 6800 not a big difference...now re read your last post...
I understand totally where your coming from man. I know it is not needed at that particular rpm, but...there is no reason not to. And they are not 200 bucks. I believe I paid just shy of 100 shipped for mine. Not 100 percent sure but I think they are 89 bucks new.
Now, it is neccessary to resize the rods using arp bolts, but katech bolts it is not neccessary. I understand they are on back order but if you want rod bolts and don't want to resize, your going to have to wait.
Regardless of the sitiuation, I'm not into risking my entire engine because I didn't want to spend an extra 100 bucks and some time on the bolts. If your not willing to spend that extra 100 bucks because you think you don't need them, then you don't need a cam, or heads or whatever else you have that requires you to spinit higher. Its just stupid.
You wouldn't put heads cam nitrous etc on your car and not do headers and full exhaust would you?
I understand totally where your coming from man. I know it is not needed at that particular rpm, but...there is no reason not to. And they are not 200 bucks. I believe I paid just shy of 100 shipped for mine. Not 100 percent sure but I think they are 89 bucks new.
Now, it is neccessary to resize the rods using arp bolts, but katech bolts it is not neccessary. I understand they are on back order but if you want rod bolts and don't want to resize, your going to have to wait.
Regardless of the sitiuation, I'm not into risking my entire engine because I didn't want to spend an extra 100 bucks and some time on the bolts. If your not willing to spend that extra 100 bucks because you think you don't need them, then you don't need a cam, or heads or whatever else you have that requires you to spinit higher. Its just stupid.
You wouldn't put heads cam nitrous etc on your car and not do headers and full exhaust would you?
What are you talking about? The OP wants to spin his 00 to 6300. He wants to spin his 01 to 6800 both of which I said are fine. The 01 can handle the extra rpm's because of the better factory bolts. ARP bolts should be re-sized If you try and get away with not doing it its no different then trying to get away with using stock bolts.
Last edited by mtuggle86; May 4, 2011 at 06:44 PM.
When a bolt stretches, its typically going to be in the threads, causing the bolt to deform into a "coke bottle" shape and can cause a crack to develop in the minor diameter, or the trough of the threads. Once that happens, you can imagine how quickly that crack can propagate through the bolt if you think about how many cycles the bolts go through at 6500-7000RPM.
They can break just as easily.
When a bolt stretches, its typically going to be in the threads, causing the bolt to deform into a "coke bottle" shape and can cause a crack to develop in the minor diameter, or the trough of the threads. Once that happens, you can imagine how quickly that crack can propagate through the bolt if you think about how many cycles the bolts go through at 6500-7000RPM.
When a bolt stretches, its typically going to be in the threads, causing the bolt to deform into a "coke bottle" shape and can cause a crack to develop in the minor diameter, or the trough of the threads. Once that happens, you can imagine how quickly that crack can propagate through the bolt if you think about how many cycles the bolts go through at 6500-7000RPM.
Last edited by mtuggle86; May 4, 2011 at 06:59 PM.
Just a question here but if it is still a hydraulic roller lifters I am assuming, after around 6,300 to 6,500 RPM there going to float out and I know I don't know anything about your car or what not but about all the rod bolts that have been put in these LS1/6 cars have rod bolts that will hold that but if it has alot of miles on it or what not I would change them. The only way I woiuld go above 6,500 RPM is if I was solid big lift cam, a built motor with a set of heads that could support it and ALL the bolt ons that would support it. Good Luck with what you decide and SORRY not try to interupt the conversation.
mtruggle, thats my fault, thought I posted that. I just re read it, and your right. I thought I put 7100 in there. Mine went spinning to 7100. BUT, no matter, its the same. cheap assurance. I also at that time figured I dont need them. Now, its just stupid to think back and think of all the cash i spent on that setup, but couldnt bother to drop the pan and install 70 dollar rod bolts. Just plain and simple retarded.
Bout time you show up KCS...
Anyways I never said you don't have to resize with ar bolts. Infact I'm always a proponent of resizing in threads entitled..."why did my **** break, I had arp bolts but didn't resize"...type of stuff.
6800 is way beyond the stock redline of 6000 rpms. So why on earth would you push a stock known weak component past its limits that far? Esp when rod bolts are so cheap and simple?. Even with arp bolts, pulling the engine and replacing all the bearings rings and rod bolts is cake compared to pulling your engine and wondering why its in peices...don't you think?
Anyways I never said you don't have to resize with ar bolts. Infact I'm always a proponent of resizing in threads entitled..."why did my **** break, I had arp bolts but didn't resize"...type of stuff.
6800 is way beyond the stock redline of 6000 rpms. So why on earth would you push a stock known weak component past its limits that far? Esp when rod bolts are so cheap and simple?. Even with arp bolts, pulling the engine and replacing all the bearings rings and rod bolts is cake compared to pulling your engine and wondering why its in peices...don't you think?
mtruggle, thats my fault, thought I posted that. I just re read it, and your right. I thought I put 7100 in there. Mine went spinning to 7100. BUT, no matter, its the same. cheap assurance. I also at that time figured I dont need them. Now, its just stupid to think back and think of all the cash i spent on that setup, but couldnt bother to drop the pan and install 70 dollar rod bolts. Just plain and simple retarded.
bout time you show up kcs...
Anyways i never said you don't have to resize with ar bolts. Infact i'm always a proponent of resizing in threads entitled..."why did my **** break, i had arp bolts but didn't resize"...type of stuff.
6800 is way beyond the stock redline of 6000 rpms. So why on earth would you push a stock known weak component past its limits that far? Esp when rod bolts are so cheap and simple?. Even with arp bolts, pulling the engine and replacing all the bearings rings and rod bolts is cake compared to pulling your engine and wondering why its in peices...don't you think?
Anyways i never said you don't have to resize with ar bolts. Infact i'm always a proponent of resizing in threads entitled..."why did my **** break, i had arp bolts but didn't resize"...type of stuff.
6800 is way beyond the stock redline of 6000 rpms. So why on earth would you push a stock known weak component past its limits that far? Esp when rod bolts are so cheap and simple?. Even with arp bolts, pulling the engine and replacing all the bearings rings and rod bolts is cake compared to pulling your engine and wondering why its in peices...don't you think?
The ls6 had a rev limit of 6600 not 6000. Since they have the same upgraded rod bolts you can assume there good to the same rpm since the rods, pistons and rodbolts are the same on both engines..gm tested those ls6 engines to 6600 for hours they can handle that no problem. So 6800 is only 200 rpm higher then stock. No pulling the engine and replacing all bearings and rod bolts isn't an easy job when its not needed at all. Anything over 6800 and i think you right.
Keep in mind most engines with a 6800rpm rev limit will shift at 6600 which is stock rev limit. THE REASON 01+ LS1's HAVE A 6200 REV LIMIT IS BECAUSE THERE CAM AND VALVETRAIN CANNOT SUPPORT A HIGHER REV LIMIT THERE ROD BOLTS CAN END OF CONVERSATION.
LETS JUST AGREE TO DISAGREE THANKS
imo OP DOES NOT NEED ROD BOLTS ON ETHER ENGINE.
BTW stock rev limit is 6200 not 6000 on an ls1. Its 6600 on an LS6
Last edited by mtuggle86; May 4, 2011 at 08:11 PM.
