A.I. vs TEA posted flow numbers for 243/799
06-23-2011, 09:17 AM
#1
A.I. vs TEA posted flow numbers for 243/799 To start off, yes, I tried to search. Didn't find exactly what I was looking for......
I've been looking at Advanced Induction's website and also at Total Engine Airflow's site, and I'm trying to compare their flow numbers on the LS2/LS6 heads.
I noticed TEA Stage 2 CNC LS6/LS2 head uses a 4.155" flow bore diameter, while AI uses a 4.000" inch for their Full CNC LS2 head. Also, TEA uses a 2.0" exhaust pipe, where AI uses none.
TEA's flow numbers are higher than AI, so I'm wondering how much of that is due to the flow test variances?
Thanks!!
I've been looking at Advanced Induction's website and also at Total Engine Airflow's site, and I'm trying to compare their flow numbers on the LS2/LS6 heads.
I noticed TEA Stage 2 CNC LS6/LS2 head uses a 4.155" flow bore diameter, while AI uses a 4.000" inch for their Full CNC LS2 head. Also, TEA uses a 2.0" exhaust pipe, where AI uses none.
TEA's flow numbers are higher than AI, so I'm wondering how much of that is due to the flow test variances?
Thanks!!
06-23-2011, 11:35 AM
#4
Bigger bore plates and the pipe on the exhaust side both increase flow numbers!!
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06-23-2011, 01:07 PM
#6
I don't have any hard numbers like "increasing plate bore by x.xx" increases flow x%" unfortunately. We did, in order to see how much the numbers could be increased on the exhaust side, put pipes of increasing length to a head on the flow bench, and I can tell you we ran out of pipe before the numbers stopped increasing!
All the PRC heads are flowed WITHOUT an exhaust pipe so as to be more repeatable on more flow benches when flowed independently, and we advertise the plate size and try to keep them realistic as to what size bore engine they'd be on with our customer's combo.
All the PRC heads are flowed WITHOUT an exhaust pipe so as to be more repeatable on more flow benches when flowed independently, and we advertise the plate size and try to keep them realistic as to what size bore engine they'd be on with our customer's combo.
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POWERBOND - ASP - AND MORE!
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COMP - FAST - PACESETTER - DIAMOND RACING - EAGLE SPECIALTY PRODUCTS - CALLIES - COMETIC GASKETS
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06-23-2011, 09:03 PM
#7
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I had a set of heads flowed last week with and without a pipe. the numbers increased 10-18cfm at most mid to high lift points.
Bore diameter will effect things too I'm not sure exactly how much though.
Ai tries to not inflate numbers at all. I have never delt with tea. I don't know what they do.
Kory
Bore diameter will effect things too I'm not sure exactly how much though.
Ai tries to not inflate numbers at all. I have never delt with tea. I don't know what they do.
Kory
Last edited by Kory 88Iroc Lt1; 06-23-2011 at 09:06 PM. Reason: added content
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06-24-2011, 05:38 PM
#9
IMO, it may be splitting hairs between the two. They have both proved to build quality products. Go for the best deal. I personally used TEA since I have experience with them in the past, but I'm sure AI would have done well. The flow that they can get from the stock heads is already beyond what a stock intake can handle (even ported), so unless you're using a FAST 102 (cathedral port), you're nit picking.
06-25-2011, 09:21 PM
#11
Good to know
06-27-2011, 10:10 AM
#14
Flow numbers are neither comparable, nor are they an indicator of potential performance. You cannot compare flow numbers from different test setups on the same brand flow bench, much less tests using different fixtures, test procedures, transducers, and entirely different flow bench brands as you are attempting to do in this instance.
Flow #'s/graphs are marketing data. That unfortunately keeps most people from asking pertinent questions (e.g. what is the actual performance gain, quality of machine work, consistency of performance potential, etc.). For quite awhile we did not post any for these reasons, but the endless "what do they flow" inquiries forced us to in an attempt to cut down correspondence.
Exhaust flow extensions/pipes are another enormous variable. A pipe added to the exhaust of our 243's typically gains 45-55cfm @ 28" H2O on our test setup.
In the end, none of this is really fruitful for the end user. Your engine is not an overgrown vacuum cleaner. The flow graph you buy will have no effect on the outcome of your project, but the machine work you are buying will.
Hope that helps more than it hurts. Thanks for your consideration!
-Phil
Flow #'s/graphs are marketing data. That unfortunately keeps most people from asking pertinent questions (e.g. what is the actual performance gain, quality of machine work, consistency of performance potential, etc.). For quite awhile we did not post any for these reasons, but the endless "what do they flow" inquiries forced us to in an attempt to cut down correspondence.
Exhaust flow extensions/pipes are another enormous variable. A pipe added to the exhaust of our 243's typically gains 45-55cfm @ 28" H2O on our test setup.
In the end, none of this is really fruitful for the end user. Your engine is not an overgrown vacuum cleaner. The flow graph you buy will have no effect on the outcome of your project, but the machine work you are buying will.
Hope that helps more than it hurts. Thanks for your consideration!
-Phil
06-27-2011, 02:50 PM
#15
Flow numbers are neither comparable, nor are they an indicator of potential performance. You cannot compare flow numbers from different test setups on the same brand flow bench, much less tests using different fixtures, test procedures, transducers, and entirely different flow bench brands as you are attempting to do in this instance.
Flow #'s/graphs are marketing data. That unfortunately keeps most people from asking pertinent questions (e.g. what is the actual performance gain, quality of machine work, consistency of performance potential, etc.). For quite awhile we did not post any for these reasons, but the endless "what do they flow" inquiries forced us to in an attempt to cut down correspondence.
Exhaust flow extensions/pipes are another enormous variable. A pipe added to the exhaust of our 243's typically gains 45-55cfm @ 28" H2O on our test setup.
In the end, none of this is really fruitful for the end user. Your engine is not an overgrown vacuum cleaner. The flow graph you buy will have no effect on the outcome of your project, but the machine work you are buying will.
Hope that helps more than it hurts. Thanks for your consideration!
-Phil
Flow #'s/graphs are marketing data. That unfortunately keeps most people from asking pertinent questions (e.g. what is the actual performance gain, quality of machine work, consistency of performance potential, etc.). For quite awhile we did not post any for these reasons, but the endless "what do they flow" inquiries forced us to in an attempt to cut down correspondence.
Exhaust flow extensions/pipes are another enormous variable. A pipe added to the exhaust of our 243's typically gains 45-55cfm @ 28" H2O on our test setup.
In the end, none of this is really fruitful for the end user. Your engine is not an overgrown vacuum cleaner. The flow graph you buy will have no effect on the outcome of your project, but the machine work you are buying will.
Hope that helps more than it hurts. Thanks for your consideration!
-Phil
Just a curious thing here (and you can PM me if you'd rather). Why do most other head compaines use larger valves, yet you guys use stock sizes? Is there that much difference in the port work that the valve size is not important? Just wondering why you guys don't go with bigger valves too.
Thanks again!!
06-28-2011, 11:29 AM
#16
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Actually, I would like to apologize. We have a new website and that is a typo. It will be corrected this afternoon. Our LS-6 stage 1 and 2 heads are flowed on a 3.900" doweled bore fixture and we use a 1-7/8" x 4.00" pipe on the exhaust. We also have 1/2" thick acrylic radius plates as opposed to a wad of clay for the intake openings. As for the pipe vs no pipe argument that vary's between shops/operators. We prefer to use a pipe and do use a pipe on all of our tests. Power numbers, track times, and reliability ultimately determine how good a head is.
