331" De-Stroked LSx.. 8500 rpm??
07-30-2011, 02:20 AM
#21
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And speaking of the DZ302, if GM could build an 8000+ rpm small block 40 years ago with less than spectacular parts, and a valve train that was substantially heavier, I would certainly hope that I could get a computer balanced, forged rotating assembly LSx to survive.
I know some guys that run the gear jammers class with 283 sbc's turning almost 10 grand and they built their own motors in a 2 car garage, and have never heard of balancing a motor...... lol
I know some guys that run the gear jammers class with 283 sbc's turning almost 10 grand and they built their own motors in a 2 car garage, and have never heard of balancing a motor...... lol
07-30-2011, 02:26 AM
#22
In a road race yes. The DZ302 with the cross ram was a very capable, mean motor. But, the 427 ZL1, L88, or even the L72 would have no problem blowing the doors off of a 302 in the 1/4. High revving 4 in bore SBC vs high revving 4.25 in bore canted/splayed head BBC isn't a fair comparison. Both were wildly impressive platforms, but there's a reason why the BBCs are king at the drag strip.
07-30-2011, 08:10 AM
#24
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They did drag the 302 Chevy back in the late 60s nick name of the car was little boss. Car was running very well and set a lot of records in 68. I believe it was Dick harrells parts manager that ran it. They eventually ran the zl1s and campaigned them for years. If you really have your heart set on running big rpm get a hold of the guys that do it and ask if they can give you some guidence. Let us know how you do
07-30-2011, 10:47 AM
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Dumb. Why not build a 370 or 408 that revs to 8500. You're also probably not going to get this done as cheaply as you want. The rockers alone are going to cost you $1500-1750. What intake are you going to use also? There isn't really much on the shelf out there intake wise for an LS3 headed high RPM screamer. All the ones on the market have long runners.
Last edited by JS01; 07-30-2011 at 10:57 AM.
07-30-2011, 01:39 PM
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Dumb. Why not build a 370 or 408 that revs to 8500. You're also probably not going to get this done as cheaply as you want. The rockers alone are going to cost you $1500-1750. What intake are you going to use also? There isn't really much on the shelf out there intake wise for an LS3 headed high RPM screamer. All the ones on the market have long runners.
Intake will be a carb'd Vic Jr or super Vic
And to get a 364-408 to turn that kind of rpm it's going to take heads that flow close to 400 cfm, which is gonna be a very expensive problem.
Plus a 3.62-4.00" crank, you've got ALOT more more rotational mass, which is gonna be harder to hold together.
BTW........ I've got a built 6.0
Maybe you need to go back to the first page, read the entire thread, then go set in the corner.
Seems like they called Christopher Columbus dumb for thinking the world was round, when all the smart guys knew it was flat. I guess your *** would've got left behind.
07-30-2011, 02:03 PM
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Don't think so pal.
How did you come to the conclusion that a 408ci engine needs 400cfm heads to make good power 8500? That would be an incorrect assumption. Just as a rough example: a 370-380cfm head and a mid 250's cam would do the trick (for a 408 shifting at 8500). Less for a smaller engine of course (340-350cfm for the 370). Also, Edelbrock doesn't make a SV for LS3 heads which you say you'd like to use in your first post. The Vic Jr. which they do have probably wont have enough CSA for you to make the power you want and the runner approach angle and lengths aren't what you'd want for a build like this.
Again, this post shows how much experience you have building high RPM engines. Any of the 4340 4" cranks available for these motors wont have any problem turning 8500.
Just trying to help bud. I know no one likes to hear that they're wrong. I do realize this is LS1tech and my advice will probably fall on deaf ears.
BTW........ I've got a built 6.0
Maybe you need to go back to the first page, read the entire thread, then go set in the corner.
Seems like they called Christopher Columbus dumb for thinking the world was round, when all the smart guys knew it was flat. I guess your *** would've got left behind.
Maybe you need to go back to the first page, read the entire thread, then go set in the corner.
Seems like they called Christopher Columbus dumb for thinking the world was round, when all the smart guys knew it was flat. I guess your *** would've got left behind.
Last edited by JS01; 07-30-2011 at 02:10 PM.
07-30-2011, 02:37 PM
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Less for a smaller engine of course. Also, Edelbrock doesn't make a SV for LS3 heads which you say you'd like to use in your first post. The Vic Jr. which they do have probably wont have enough CSA for you to make the power you want and the runner approach angle and lengths aren't what you'd want for a build like this.
Again, this post shows how much experience you have building high RPM engines. Any of the 4340 4" cranks available for these motors wont have any problem turning 8500.
Just trying to help bud.
Again, this post shows how much experience you have building high RPM engines. Any of the 4340 4" cranks available for these motors wont have any problem turning 8500.
Just trying to help bud.
And like someone already mentioned, it should be moving similar air to a 408 @7k, so VJ shouldn't be a problem
I never said those cranks would have any problems, I said it's going to have more rotational mass, since the weight is further from center, and it's going to be harder to keep it together. With a 3.2" stroke it has a much smaller moment of inertia which is the ticket I'm betting on.
If you were "just trying to help", you could have given me facts as to why it wouldn't work, or what it needs to make it work.
Already gotten a couple of PMs from people saying this setup is out there, running alot of oem parts and holding up good, and running some good times.
This motor is for the track, not to get an impressive dyno sheet.
07-30-2011, 08:07 PM
#31
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I'd like to know more about the 11 second truck you built. I have an SS but trucks is my true love. I've always been willing to put out the bucks for fully forged setup with a sigle trubo in a 2wd but my biggest problem is finding someone within 500 miles of me to do the job and I'm not quite up to it myself.
07-30-2011, 08:29 PM
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it seems like you're pretty set on it, so have fun.
07-30-2011, 08:30 PM
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And speaking of the DZ302, if GM could build an 8000+ rpm small block 40 years ago with less than spectacular parts, and a valve train that was substantially heavier, I would certainly hope that I could get a computer balanced, forged rotating assembly LSx to survive.
I know some guys that run the gear jammers class with 283 sbc's turning almost 10 grand and they built their own motors in a 2 car garage, and have never heard of balancing a motor...... lol
I know some guys that run the gear jammers class with 283 sbc's turning almost 10 grand and they built their own motors in a 2 car garage, and have never heard of balancing a motor...... lol
07-30-2011, 10:35 PM
#36
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I'd like to know more about the 11 second truck you built. I have an SS but trucks is my true love. I've always been willing to put out the bucks for fully forged setup with a sigle trubo in a 2wd but my biggest problem is finding someone within 500 miles of me to do the job and I'm not quite up to it myself.
It was a 99 reg cab short bed, 4wd.
Motor i swapped in was stock bottom LS1 (arp rod bolts), 317 heads p&p'd by me, thunder racing blower cam, obx 1.75" long tubes, Whipple blower on 7# boost, with a small hit of spray, & 39# injectors
The driveline was mostly stock, besides the built 4L60, 3k stall, and a locker in the rear
Cut 1.60-1.65 on the 60's, 7.2-.3s @95ish 1/8, 11.3-.6s @117ish, only went to 1/4 1 time with it, that's been 4 yrs ago.
07-30-2011, 11:06 PM
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if somebody tells me this wont work because of X, X, and X..... i respect that, even if they have a different way of thinking than me.
or they tell me, that will work, but you might want to look at X, X, and X... i respect that and appreciate it
you have made NO contribution to the discussion, and i really dont give 2 shakes of a **** stick about your opinion, when you dont give any support for a statement.
i personally think its stupid to spend $1,300 for a intake/tb that gains 20 hp.
but if somebody wants to buy a truck load of them, i have no right to say **** to them.
07-31-2011, 01:10 AM
#38
Personally, I would be more worried about piston speed with a bigger crank. A 4" stroke moves the piston roughly 1000fpm more than a 3.27 stroke.
Both the above quotes were stated by erik at HKE. Just so no one thinks im trying to take credit.
The point people usually never see is that these different engines do not see the same rpms so the increased strokes of unlimited engines almost always result in more hp and lower rpm. If you can turn the same rpm with the increased stroke you have to be a bad *** or the other guy has to be a total patsy of an engine builder. Therefore most of the time more stroke equals more power and more reliability and less friction and more efficiency.
You WILL have more friction at the same rpm and load with a larger engine whether its from either bore or stroke or both but you will not actually be at the same rpm or load with the larger engine or you will be going much faster.
To drive at the same speeds and rates of acceleration as the smaller engine you will see lower rpm and friction with the larger engine. This is why you run huge engines that turn low rpm when you need a lot of power but you need the engine to last forever.
Efficiency means how much power you can make out of a given amount of fuel and air. The larger strokers are always more efficient as evidenced by their lower BSFC readings and their higher power with the exact same heads etc.
To drive at the same speeds and rates of acceleration as the smaller engine you will see lower rpm and friction with the larger engine. This is why you run huge engines that turn low rpm when you need a lot of power but you need the engine to last forever.
Efficiency means how much power you can make out of a given amount of fuel and air. The larger strokers are always more efficient as evidenced by their lower BSFC readings and their higher power with the exact same heads etc.
