DarkFox118

iTrader: (7)

OK, done some talking, studying etc.

Here's the details I'm coming up with:


Original plan:
*Ls3 intake
*L92 heads with upgraded springs
*TSP cam (I don't have my sheet with me right now but it's in my earlier posts)
Estimated: 400-430WHP

Proposed changes:
Procharger D1SC kit
Reman'd 317s, upgraded springs, new valves, port/polish
Ls6 intake
TSP 224/228 cam
Estimated: 400-550WHP

the latter costs a LOT more... really.

Consider a used ls3 intake goes for about $300, ls6 about $600 from what i've been able to find.. seem to be hard to come by and buying them new is pricey.
L92 heads are about $900 for a set, remaning the 317s are $1200 easy. The D1SC kit is about $6600.

so by going with the procharger I would gain 0-100whp, and incur over $7000 in additional costs.

Is 100WHP worth $7000 on top of an already ~$15,000 project?

Certainly, boost applications allow better street manners, and this car will be most likely 99% of it's life idling forward at 0-5mph in bumper to bumper traffic.. the other 1% cruising static 60-78mph.

I honestly don't know yet. Even though the answer seems pretty clear in the pricetag huh?

black00ssFL

iTrader: (24)

Used LS6 intakes can be had for about $300 used here on tech. And there's no reason to have the 317's worked over, most used sets of 317's go for about $150, then all you need is a good set of springs. Being F/I having the heads ported and polished isn't as important. And, with the lower compression ratio you should be able to run 10+ psi with the D1SC. And you should put out north of 600whp with all that. I just think that you're over estimating cost and underestimating power.

DarkFox118

iTrader: (7)

well, the numbers I'm pulling from are from procharger's website. They promise a 55% HP increase peak.

Now I don't know what any one cam will do, but with 317 heads and a stock bottom end, I basically have a stock LQ4 I'm dealing with here, which has a stock HP of about 300FWHP.

so 55% is 165hp for a 465FWHP motor, plus cam.. that's where I'm getting my power range. I can't see 600 at all.

tbh I worry the bottom end of this motor won't handle that much power. I figure 400 is probably about it's limit, unless I want to put in new rod bolts and bearings, and I really don't want to do that.

DarkFox118

iTrader: (7)

eh..maybe I should look into having this motor rebuilt or something.. if I'm gonna go with boost. bottom end needs a lot of beefing up it seems to be able to handle such things.

j_rods71

I dont think its worth it in my eyes... for a daily driver anyways

DarkFox118

iTrader: (7)

Well, I see a lot of folks on here blowing stock LQs to pieces with 10-12psi.

I REALLY don't think taking off slowly from a redlight with a minivan in front of me is going to cause such a thing.. but.. running it hard just before catching up with traffic might. Just dunno..

I'd feel better with all new, always have, just tried to go the cheaper route with this salvage motor. Not sure yet.

Preliminary costs are showing the cost of just the motor and supercharger setup to run $15-20k. That'd be for a TSP 408 shortblock, reman'd 317s, new cam (EPP blower cam seems quite popular..) procharger D1SC, fast 102/102, injectors fuel rails lifters rockers and so on.

Originally, I had planned the entire project tranny rearend and suspension AND motor to cost that much.

Am I gonna love my camaro that much when this is done? that's the real question.

RAMJET5

When you say that your cam is a 238/242 duration is that advertised duration or duration at .050" lift. THIS QUESTION IS FOR -Q-.

gs462

iTrader: (4)

I was told this kit in a stock block with K1 rods and crank and Weisco pistons with ARP Main studs would be good up to 900 HP.
port the heads a good cam and LS6 intake it should make goood power. and then you can shoot it with 200 hp and make it FLY.

http://texas-speed.com/p-1016-tsp-40...-assembly.aspx

DarkFox118

iTrader: (7)

I was looking at a tsp 408, it's about $4k for the shortblock, $7500 for the long block (prc stage 3 LQ9 heads... which I assume is a re-worked 317..)

I'm going back and forth between continuing with this motor as is with the stock bottom end.. and scrapping that idea entirely. It's gonna cost a LOT more to go the other route, more than I think I'm willing to do.

Doing a lot of reading on other people's LQ projects, it seems almost NONE of them are dropping in LQ motors with an unmodified bottom end. They're replacing rod bolts, rings, pistons in some cases, investigating/reworking the crank..

this is my first time inside an engine at all. I've SEEN a lot of em, done a lot of reading, understand the theory behind it all.. but I've never done it... and you know how that is.. you can spend your life in a book but until your hands are on it you don't know it.

As such.. I do not feel capable of doing the things these other people are doing, and don't know how to check for these problems that they're finding.

I figured at $650 this motor would be an excellent learning experience, and I still believe that. The problem is I daily drive this car, and I really don't want to replace a worn out Ls1 with a time bomb LQ4.

I mean, here's the backstory on the motor as best as I can tell.. 03 guy buys a cab and chassis C3500 GMC truck..he puts 10-15k miles a month on it. at 190k miles it has a wreck, it's repaired, at 293k miles it's sold.. new owner puts this motor in immediately. 2 months later truck has a wreck recorded as "minor" but the guy sells the truck to salvage.

Why would he do that? Maybe this motor wasn't living up to his expectations? I don't trust this motor.. and I worry I don't have enough knowledge to find any potential problems without more dis assembly.

I've considered taking it down to MTI and having the guys check it out, but I have no idea how much they'd charge for that.

that's why I'm on the fence really.. I wanna do this once and only once.

Fade2blk500

iTrader: (18)

I've been running a stock longblock lq4 in my 98 camaro for almost 4 years now, its been cammed for about 2 of the years, and had nitrous ran through it since the day it was installed.. lol Not a ton of nitrous but still ~5 bottles a year. It makes ~400 rwhp on motor and has been sprayed with anywhere from 75-125 shot. I've drove it pretty hard and it has a 6800 limiter.

I bought it with 60k out of a salvaged yukon denali. I daily drove the car for about a year of the time it was in. I've probably put a solid 30k hard miles on it.. Just a little testimony of the strength of an lq4.

I actually purchased a set of ls3 heads/intake to swap onto it pretty soon. I might tear it down and do one of tsp's stroker kits @ that time, mainly because i think there will be a ptv clearence issue with the size cam i am running. Anyways, Good luck with your build and whichever way you decide to go.

gs462

iTrader: (4)

Take your block to a local machine shop and have them install the 408 kit you should be well under the 4k you're talking about, Why buy a block when you have one?

DarkFox118

iTrader: (7)

thought about that.

The rotating assembly is about $3k, in a new block it's $4k.

I take this block down to MTI with the rotating assembly they're gonna charge me $2-3k to machine the block and put it all back in. Besides don't you want the pistons AFTER you've machined and measured the block?

sure, it'll save shipping costs, I think it'll wind up costing more overall though.

BOBS99SS

iTrader: (2)

buddy i think you are getting caught up in the internet bs, first off you have a block no need for a new one, stick to one set plan, i think a used d1sc kit would be a great idea, would make killer power and boost can be kept to a safe amount, listen i know many people that have done the swap, and the people i know punish those block every day, and imo they are pretty strong,dont get caught up just because a few people blew there motors running to much boost or what not, if i was in your shoes right now i wouldnt even second guess about throwing that in your car, make a plan stick to it, there is so much bs on the internet these days its insaine, you follow those guys all you will do is spend more and maybe go just a lil faster than what you can get with what you allready have,trust me i know its easy to bounce back and fourth about a game plan, but you really need to figure out what you want out of it, good luck man ,

gs462

iTrader: (4)

I think your pricing is a bit off, if you're goin to a ls1 specific sight like MTI have them get you the parts, as far as pistons, you can have the block bored to the size of the pistons you buy, usually. Obviously you'll have to know your block is good to start with.

DarkFox118

iTrader: (7)

Well, I did some digging, thinking researching this morning..

I think what I'm gonna do is go with a new 370 from TSP.

I don't trust this Lq4 and don't want to use it. I'll get the shortblock from TSP and move over the valley cover etc. with new gaskets onto the new motor.

May be Feb. before I have the money saved up.

It's still TECHNICALLY an LQ build.. the block is still an LQ4/9 block.

I thought about a 408 but I've heard they're unreliable.. I need 100-150k miles+ out of this thing. I don't want to be inside the bottom end again for a decade of heavy driving.

gs462

iTrader: (4)

Its your money spend it how you like, The info I was given on the 408 came from someone at TSP thats why i suggested it, I could forward you the message if you'd like.

BOBS99SS

iTrader: (2)

Wanna sell that bl0ck?

DarkFox118

iTrader: (7)

dunno yet. that stock 6.0 would do really well with the light duty my 57 belair would put on it. I may keep it for that, but it's going to be a LONG time from now before I start that project.

originally I was gonna rebuild the ls1/60 I pull out and drop in that car, and I may still, but it'd be cheaper to just use this stock motor. It won't fit my camaro's needs, but it'd fit the belair's I'm sure.

I'm not sure how long it's gonna be before I can buy my engine from TSP. The forecast isn't looking too good.. even if I include a hefty christmas bonus, I won't have the money until feb.

I'm sure the car will be fine, just worries me cos it's got an emissions related CEL, and I don't want to have to fix it. I was gonna tune it out when I did the engine swap.

DarkFox118

iTrader: (7)

OK.. @ $8500 for a longblock for the camaro.. this is a dead project. I'm giving up.

I'll just repair things as they break, if the motor dies in this car, I'll probably sell it as a roller and cut my losses.

I'll probably fix the LQ4 up for the belair, but if/when I get to that, I'll start a new thread for it. That'll be a whole different project than this one. I'll have a lot of research to do on that.

black00ssFL

iTrader: (24)

I think you can build a decent engine for much less using what you have. You can have 400-450rwhp for much less and have a really fun car. I'll gather together the parts and cost for me on my LQ build, and it'll probably make you upset, lol. Let's just say I'm pretty sure I have less in the entire engine than a set of TFS or AFR heads. I'll get a run down of the parts/cost for you later today. And, I think you're too hell bent on buying everything new. There are some parts you need to buy new, others are ok used. Took me about 5 months of looking/waiting/buying parts to put it together with everything I need.