LS engine building. Engine builder told me I couldnt do it.
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TECH Fanatic
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From: Olive Branch, MS
LS engine building. Engine builder told me I couldnt do it. I went to a local engine shop to ask about getting machine work done on on a LS1 block. The engine shop quoted me a price and then asked who was putting the engine together. I told him that I was going to. He then started to go on this rant about how building an LS1 is not like building a typical old school 350 and how I wouldnt have good oil pressure because I didnt have the proper equipment to make sure the bearing clearances were correct. He said "plasti-gauge isnt worth a damn, put a rod on a crank with plasti-gauge then pull it back off and put a fresh piece in there and do it again and 10 out of 10 times the readings will be different. He said "if you build this motor in your garage, it will be back in side my shop inside a month.
What the hell does he have that I dont or cant buy. I dont have the equip. to do the machine work but I could buy the micrometer to measure the bearing tolerances and all that. Either way im not gonna pay his fat *** 700 to assemble a shortblock for me.
Is plasti-gauge really that crappy?
Is putting an LS1 together that difficult?
He has me a little worried and a little pissed so im just looking to see what you guys think.
Thanks in advance.
Trey
What the hell does he have that I dont or cant buy. I dont have the equip. to do the machine work but I could buy the micrometer to measure the bearing tolerances and all that. Either way im not gonna pay his fat *** 700 to assemble a shortblock for me.
Is plasti-gauge really that crappy?
Is putting an LS1 together that difficult?
He has me a little worried and a little pissed so im just looking to see what you guys think.
Thanks in advance.
Trey
He is kinda right in a way. To do it right, you will have to buy alot of special tools. Now you could slap one together with a few measurements but there is a good chance it will be coming back out sooner rather then later.
With the price if parts, bearings, rings, etc; you could have a good shortblock built from a good builder for very little money more then just the parts cost.
You can get a good shortblock from a good builder for 3500 or so, some places less. Now add up all the machine work, pistons, rods, bearings, etc but you would come out to almost the same price.
With the price if parts, bearings, rings, etc; you could have a good shortblock built from a good builder for very little money more then just the parts cost.
You can get a good shortblock from a good builder for 3500 or so, some places less. Now add up all the machine work, pistons, rods, bearings, etc but you would come out to almost the same price.
Me and my dad put mine together from block to complete. I didn't even measure my bearing clearances. I trusted my machinist, and he turned my crank and told me what size bearings I needed. So all I did was bolt everything to the correct torque specs and cranked her up. 2 years later and it's still all good.
He said plasti-gauge isnt worth a damn, put a rod on a crank with plasti-gauge then pull it back off and put a fresh piece in there and do it again and 10 out of 10 times the readings will be different. He said "if you build this motor in your garage, it will be back in side my shop inside a month.
What the hell does he have that I dont or cant buy. I dont have the equip. to do the machine work but I could buy the micrometer to measure the bearing tolerances and all that. Either way im not gonna pay his fat *** 700 to assemble a shortblock for me.
Is plasti-gauge really that crappy?
Is putting an LS1 together that difficult?
He has me a little worried and a little pissed so im just looking to see what you guys think.
Thanks in advance.
Trey
What the hell does he have that I dont or cant buy. I dont have the equip. to do the machine work but I could buy the micrometer to measure the bearing tolerances and all that. Either way im not gonna pay his fat *** 700 to assemble a shortblock for me.
Is plasti-gauge really that crappy?
Is putting an LS1 together that difficult?
He has me a little worried and a little pissed so im just looking to see what you guys think.
Thanks in advance.
Trey
Many of us on here have assembled LS1 blocks using plasti-gauge.
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Verdad Gallardo ****, you could drive a car with your feet
if you want to.
That don't make it a good ******* idea.
Launching!
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 283
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From: N. Va
well yeah you can do it yourself, but should you is the real question. That builder is right to a degree, should've said it in a different manner, but really these motor's are cake. I can bolt it all together like the best of them, but for the rotating assembly I'll always have a machine shop do it. Peace of mind and a warrenty on their work if it is screwed up
In a way, plastigauge is more accurate.The mic depends on temps and your feel, which isn't very consistent. In a perfect world, you'd check your bearings and journals with the mic, then with plastigage. I always use both. And I've never once had a complaint or a come-back. Even on 800-HP 540 BBC builds.
And there are several ways of using plastigage. I like to have the block upside down, with the bearings in. Then 3 strips of PG on each bearing, then the crank, then 3 more strips, then the bearing, then the cap, then torque it like final assembly. Then undo it all.
Each strip of PG should be at or a hair over 0.001", never more than 0.0015", never less than 0.001".
If that comes out right, then you're good to move ahead.
And there are several ways of using plastigage. I like to have the block upside down, with the bearings in. Then 3 strips of PG on each bearing, then the crank, then 3 more strips, then the bearing, then the cap, then torque it like final assembly. Then undo it all.
Each strip of PG should be at or a hair over 0.001", never more than 0.0015", never less than 0.001".
If that comes out right, then you're good to move ahead.
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,343
Likes: 8
From: Katy, TX
I am in the same boat as you and I'm planning to do the assembly myself.
Its not about the money. Heck, just in tool purchases, I've spent what it would cost for an assembled short block.
To me its more than that. Its the satisfaction that comes from the hard work and dedication to achieving your goal and learning something new. If that goal takes more time and money than paying someone else to do it, then so be it.
To each his own. For me, the choice is clear. Plus, its not my daily driver so if I screw something up I can wait a few months to sort it out.
Good luck with the build!
Its not about the money. Heck, just in tool purchases, I've spent what it would cost for an assembled short block.
To me its more than that. Its the satisfaction that comes from the hard work and dedication to achieving your goal and learning something new. If that goal takes more time and money than paying someone else to do it, then so be it.
To each his own. For me, the choice is clear. Plus, its not my daily driver so if I screw something up I can wait a few months to sort it out.
Good luck with the build!
I can buy a violin, does that mean I'm ready to go home and play Strauss?
The fact that you don't know the diff between tolerance versus clearance tells quite a bit about your current skill level. It shows you've done some reading, but didn't understand what you read.
edit to add: the mic is only one of several expensive precision tools you'll need in order to assemble the engine properly. Runout gauge to measure crank endplay, snap gauge or inside mic to measure bearing diameter, bigger snap gauge + big mic or an inside mic to measure bore diameter, big mic to measure piston diameter, torque wrench that hits 106 in/lb, torque wrench that hits 18 lb/ft & 22 lb/ft, angle-torque meter...probably a few more that I'm not thinking of right now but you get the picture.
Total up what these cost vs. what a good shop will charge for assembly and then decide for yourself...and bear in mind the machinist knows how to use them correctly.
Last edited by crainholio; Aug 12, 2011 at 07:09 PM.
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From: Home town Houston station in ft hood
ive put together a few motors in my time and im no expert by any means but as long as you have the correct torque specs and stuffs properly machined then putting it back together isnt hard at all
I built my stroker, and had the machine work done by the most reputable builder in my area, When I did it, I took him the bearings and had him set my bearing clearances to my spec. I then checked them with him and seen that they were perfect. So when I was assembling the engine I knew I was spot on. YOU can assemble the engine yourself, there are alot of little tips and tricks. I have a DVD on rebuilding the LS1 along with the factory manuals. I agree with the machinist, and have seen it first hand,, plastigage is not as accurate as a set of micrometers,,Period.
Sure, you can buy a micrometer.
I can buy a violin, does that mean I'm ready to go home and play Strauss?
The fact that you don't know the diff between tolerance versus clearance tells quite a bit about your current skill level. It shows you've done some reading, but didn't understand what you read.
edit to add: the mic is only one of several expensive precision tools you'll need in order to assemble the engine properly. Runout gauge to measure crank endplay, snap gauge or inside mic to measure bearing diameter, bigger snap gauge + big mic or an inside mic to measure bore diameter, big mic to measure piston diameter, torque wrench that hits 106 in/lb, torque wrench that hits 18 lb/ft & 22 lb/ft, angle-torque meter...probably a few more that I'm not thinking of right now but you get the picture.
Total up what these cost vs. what a good shop will charge for assembly and then decide for yourself...and bear in mind the machinist knows how to use them correctly.
I can buy a violin, does that mean I'm ready to go home and play Strauss?
The fact that you don't know the diff between tolerance versus clearance tells quite a bit about your current skill level. It shows you've done some reading, but didn't understand what you read.
edit to add: the mic is only one of several expensive precision tools you'll need in order to assemble the engine properly. Runout gauge to measure crank endplay, snap gauge or inside mic to measure bearing diameter, bigger snap gauge + big mic or an inside mic to measure bore diameter, big mic to measure piston diameter, torque wrench that hits 106 in/lb, torque wrench that hits 18 lb/ft & 22 lb/ft, angle-torque meter...probably a few more that I'm not thinking of right now but you get the picture.
Total up what these cost vs. what a good shop will charge for assembly and then decide for yourself...and bear in mind the machinist knows how to use them correctly.