rods bolts
rods bolts so i've looked around lil bit, can't seem to find the correct answer.
at what point do you need rod bolts, and what is the correct way to install them. ive seen where people spin bearings after the install....
oh stock 99 ls1, do you guys drop the pan and just replace the old with the new? thanks guys
at what point do you need rod bolts, and what is the correct way to install them. ive seen where people spin bearings after the install....
oh stock 99 ls1, do you guys drop the pan and just replace the old with the new? thanks guys
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I always suggest to do rod bolts it you ever want to do some more serious modifications to your engine ex. heads, cam, nitrous, turbo, supercharger etc. Also if you plan on revving to high rpms when you shift rod bolts are a great investment. I have seen some people drop the pan to do them, I personally have only done them when the engine is out of the car for other reasons but it can be done in the car, just a little harder and time consuming. Depending on which rod bolts you buy you may have to re size the rods, so beware of which bolts your are buying.
I would re size them on matter what. Most people get by dropping the pan doing them one at a time but all it takes is a bearing shifting .001 and your living on borrowed time.
So arp rod bolts. Should the rods be re sized with them?
I'm asking because this winter I'm going to put a cam in my car. All this information is going to help me determine which cam I buy. I want the ms4 but if I have to re size the rods just for rod bolts, maybe I should choose a different cam
I'm asking because this winter I'm going to put a cam in my car. All this information is going to help me determine which cam I buy. I want the ms4 but if I have to re size the rods just for rod bolts, maybe I should choose a different cam
imo katechs just drop the pan, if the motors out arps. listen i have a 99 ss m6 with a ms4 cam, i have stock rod bolts in mine and have done more than my fair share of pulls shifting at the moon as we say lol, is it a good idea to do rod bolts, yes anything that is going to help your motor last longer is a good idea, is this a track car? listen i have higher miles in mine and honest i just said when the motor lets go i will just build something better.can i ask why you wanna go with the ms4, dont get me wrong i like it but honest there are a ton of better cams out these days. also a ms4 is not a budget cam what so ever, it will take max effort parts to get it to run right. honest man there are a handful of cars that run the ms cams that run great. if your going all out by all means this is the cam for you. not trying to change your cam choice because i know this thread is about rod bolts just throwing a lil info out there.
Bearings can move around all they want to, such is normal. Im not talking about spinning on the journal, they move a few thousands F/R and rotate ever so slightly. What you meant to say is you dont want rod cap movement which is the whole point behind resizing rods, but LSx rods are cracked cap so the one at the time method prevents any movement
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Katech bolts are the only one's for our cars that don't recommend resizing the rod. You are supposed to resize after rod bolts in general because the increased clamp of the bolts can distort the roundness of the big end of the rod.
The bolts are only needed for high rev's. If you aren't revving it high don't touch them. When the piston reaches TDC and is then pulled back down by the crank that is when the bolts are put under stress, so if you increase piston speed, mass increases that the bolts see while the piston is extended at full stroke and stopped, then yanked back down. The bolts do not need to be replaced due to increased power like so many people will say. So many say to do it if you do a cam, no not true. Problem is people do a cam, raise the rev limiter and then boom. Well that was because of the rev's not the power. The pressure from the power is seen by the rod itself not the bolts. And if you pick the right cam you don't have to rev it to the moon to get it to run hard anyway.
The bolts are only needed for high rev's. If you aren't revving it high don't touch them. When the piston reaches TDC and is then pulled back down by the crank that is when the bolts are put under stress, so if you increase piston speed, mass increases that the bolts see while the piston is extended at full stroke and stopped, then yanked back down. The bolts do not need to be replaced due to increased power like so many people will say. So many say to do it if you do a cam, no not true. Problem is people do a cam, raise the rev limiter and then boom. Well that was because of the rev's not the power. The pressure from the power is seen by the rod itself not the bolts. And if you pick the right cam you don't have to rev it to the moon to get it to run hard anyway.
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Verdad Gallardo I'd like not to rev to the moon. Lol this car is not an all out track car, it will see its fair share. I bought the car with 81k miles on it and I'm retiring it from dding with 102k. It's in good shape. It's will be just a weekend car. I'm looking for 400 whp. Car is an auto. I have Texas speed 1 7/8 headers and a Borla catback. So the exhaust is decent. I was looking into a 3500 stall. Any one have a good recommendation for what I want?
And the 400 whp is not set in stone. I'd just like to be close. Most people do not have the understanding of what type of power that is on the street. Having owned a turbo 4th gen making 550, I do. And I've driven some very fast cars. I do not plan on taking the car much further than just camming, I have two other camaros to mess with.
Thanks for the help so far guys
And the 400 whp is not set in stone. I'd just like to be close. Most people do not have the understanding of what type of power that is on the street. Having owned a turbo 4th gen making 550, I do. And I've driven some very fast cars. I do not plan on taking the car much further than just camming, I have two other camaros to mess with.
Thanks for the help so far guys
Bearings can move around all they want to, such is normal. Im not talking about spinning on the journal, they move a few thousands F/R and rotate ever so slightly. What you meant to say is you dont want rod cap movement which is the whole point behind resizing rods, but LSx rods are cracked cap so the one at the time method prevents any movement
this is why you see threads where people have replaced bolts, and 1k miles later, they have spun bearings, and some threads where 100k miles later its still running like a champ.
replacing bolts without resizing is hit or miss. period.
that's like comparing a grade 8 bolt and grade 5 bolt. stating that simply because the grade 8 bolt is stronger, it will distort your connection. how is that so? clamp load capability has nothing to do with how hard they are torqued. the capability is tested when the parts are moving at high rpm, not sitting on the stand upside down right after you install them.
also, this is true of rpm killing the bottom end. i have seen a few motors that come apart from high rpm. if the bearing doesn't spin from lack of oil, the rod will stretch. i've personally seen 2 of these instances. one 99 motor, one 01 motor.
So explain to me why re sizing a rod is required after changing rod bolts? Is that something machinest and bolt manufacturers dreamed up to add extra work to the process?. By the time you torque down a stronger bolt enough to be effective, you will distort the rod bore.
Ever wonder why arp bolts use more torque than stock? You have to streach a bolt to make it effective, and you have to put more torque on a stronger bolt to make it streach.
Ever wonder why arp bolts use more torque than stock? You have to streach a bolt to make it effective, and you have to put more torque on a stronger bolt to make it streach.
I knew that 99 had issues with the oil pumps not being up to par. Thats something I was going to address during the swap, along with a timing chain. So katech rod bolts are stronger and have the same torque spec as factory? Those should be the best bet. But if I don't have to replace them, given I buy a cam that stays in the factory powerband, no need for them right?
I have h/c, with bolt ons and I know the limitation of my car, I don't spin mine past 6.5K.
Last edited by bene; Nov 11, 2011 at 05:58 AM.
So explain to me why re sizing a rod is required after changing rod bolts? Is that something machinest and bolt manufacturers dreamed up to add extra work to the process?. By the time you torque down a stronger bolt enough to be effective, you will distort the rod bore.
Ever wonder why arp bolts use more torque than stock? You have to streach a bolt to make it effective, and you have to put more torque on a stronger bolt to make it streach.
Ever wonder why arp bolts use more torque than stock? You have to streach a bolt to make it effective, and you have to put more torque on a stronger bolt to make it streach.
i'm just asking questions. i am not engine builder. i have built a few for myself and helped others, as well. none of our **** has blown up. it just doesn't make sense to me that because one bolt requires X now all bolts require X.
i have a cnc'd l92 headed lq4 with a mathathumper and a singleplane carbed intake. i bought arp rod bolts for it, but then got scared of them(without resizeing) and sent them back. i then ordered a set from katech ($200) and put them in without issue. i shift at 7000rpm and have had zero issues. i changed the rod bolts while the engine was on the stand. the hardest part is getting the stock ferrels out of the caps. make sure that you clean the parting surfaces really good. any oil that gets in the "cracked" surface could potentially cause a hydraulic pressure that would prevent the cap from resting on the rod. i could see this being a problem when doing this job while the engine is still in the car.
listen your post of not wanting to spin it to the moon tells me you do not want a ms4, get a pat g spec cam, he can get you everything your looking for in a cam,i have a ms4 and i always tell everyone to stay away from that cam for a few reasons, its not something that can be made fast on a budget, and you will have alot faster car going with something smaller, i hope you know you can get a big bad *** cam sound on a much smaller profile, also not saying your exhaust set up is bad for a ms4 but duals would help a ton with a ms4, pat g custom grind , you can stay away from doing rod bolts ,make tons of street usable power etc. if you had a 98 i would say rod bolts all the way , the rod bolts in a 98 are garbage,