View Poll Results: AFR 215cc vs. PRC 215cc
afr
47
60.26%
prc
31
39.74%
Voters: 78. You may not vote on this poll
afr 215cc vs. prc 215cc
01-05-2012, 08:52 PM
#21
TECH Fanatic
What TSP just did was petty and uncalled for. Tony never once put them down and even gave them credit for their product. Companies that stoop to this level to put their product over and put a company under will never get my buisness. But who am I; I am just one person, but when you put yourself out there like this others become like me and you loose a few customers. To the OP you can't go wrong with either product, both products perform. Me personally I like AFR due to the thicker deck and I have heard nothing but positives about Tony's extra touch.
Last edited by TVWilkes; 01-05-2012 at 09:08 PM.
01-05-2012, 08:55 PM
#22
I'm sorry msebastianZ06, I don't see where we talked down Tony's product, can you please point out where I said something negative about Tony's product?
PRC has 3/4" deck & 6 bolt previsions on every PRC casting!
I noticed several of the posts in this thread have been altered from the original format. I want to leave all of this at this:
Both companies make a high quality part, if you'd like to come down & inspect what goes into our products we'd love to have you here. With our new state of the art 25,000 sq ft facility we without a doubt have the most advanced LS sales & development facility in the world.
I will gladly loan anyone on here the use of my engine dyno development cell if you want to compare ANY competitors cylinder heads side by side with the PRC head.
PRC has 3/4" deck & 6 bolt previsions on every PRC casting!
I noticed several of the posts in this thread have been altered from the original format. I want to leave all of this at this:
Both companies make a high quality part, if you'd like to come down & inspect what goes into our products we'd love to have you here. With our new state of the art 25,000 sq ft facility we without a doubt have the most advanced LS sales & development facility in the world.
I will gladly loan anyone on here the use of my engine dyno development cell if you want to compare ANY competitors cylinder heads side by side with the PRC head.
01-05-2012, 08:57 PM
#23
We are in Lubbock, we just moved about 8 miles away from our old shop!
READING ALL THE POSTS AS THEY WERE ORIGINALLY POSTED IN THIS THREAD IS VERY IMPORTANT. TONY EDITED HIS POST AFTER READING OUR REPLY. I WILL ASK MATT TO EDIT OUR REPLY TO HIM FIRST THING IN THE MORNING
IF ANYONE WANTS TO READ THE ORIGINAL POST BEFORE THE EDITS PERHAPS THE MODERATORS WILL BRING UP THE ORIGINAL REPLIES!?!?
READING ALL THE POSTS AS THEY WERE ORIGINALLY POSTED IN THIS THREAD IS VERY IMPORTANT. TONY EDITED HIS POST AFTER READING OUR REPLY. I WILL ASK MATT TO EDIT OUR REPLY TO HIM FIRST THING IN THE MORNING
IF ANYONE WANTS TO READ THE ORIGINAL POST BEFORE THE EDITS PERHAPS THE MODERATORS WILL BRING UP THE ORIGINAL REPLIES!?!?
__________________
Jason
Co-Owner, Texas Speed & Performance, Ltd.
2005 Twin Turbo C6
404cid Stroker, 67mm Twins
994rwhp/902lb ft @ 22 psi (mustang dyno) www.Texas-Speed.com
Jason
Co-Owner, Texas Speed & Performance, Ltd.
2005 Twin Turbo C6
404cid Stroker, 67mm Twins
994rwhp/902lb ft @ 22 psi (mustang dyno) www.Texas-Speed.com
Last edited by Jason 98 TA; 01-05-2012 at 09:10 PM.
01-05-2012, 09:20 PM
#24
We are in Lubbock, we just moved about 8 miles away from our old shop!
READING ALL THE POSTS AS THEY WERE ORIGINALLY POSTED IN THIS THREAD IS VERY IMPORTANT. TONY EDITED HIS POST AFTER READING OUR REPLY. I WILL ASK MATT TO EDIT OUR REPLY TO HIM FIRST THING IN THE MORNING
IF ANYONE WANTS TO READ THE ORIGINAL POST BEFORE THE EDITS PERHAPS THE MODERATORS WILL BRING UP THE ORIGINAL REPLIES!?!?
READING ALL THE POSTS AS THEY WERE ORIGINALLY POSTED IN THIS THREAD IS VERY IMPORTANT. TONY EDITED HIS POST AFTER READING OUR REPLY. I WILL ASK MATT TO EDIT OUR REPLY TO HIM FIRST THING IN THE MORNING
IF ANYONE WANTS TO READ THE ORIGINAL POST BEFORE THE EDITS PERHAPS THE MODERATORS WILL BRING UP THE ORIGINAL REPLIES!?!?
01-05-2012, 10:25 PM
#25
5619 fm 1585
Come by and we will let you see first hand what goes into prc heads.
Come by and we will let you see first hand what goes into prc heads.
__________________
Jason
Co-Owner, Texas Speed & Performance, Ltd.
2005 Twin Turbo C6
404cid Stroker, 67mm Twins
994rwhp/902lb ft @ 22 psi (mustang dyno) www.Texas-Speed.com
Jason
Co-Owner, Texas Speed & Performance, Ltd.
2005 Twin Turbo C6
404cid Stroker, 67mm Twins
994rwhp/902lb ft @ 22 psi (mustang dyno) www.Texas-Speed.com
01-05-2012, 10:45 PM
#29
READING ALL THE POSTS AS THEY WERE ORIGINALLY POSTED IN THIS THREAD IS VERY IMPORTANT. TONY EDITED HIS POST AFTER READING OUR REPLY. I WILL ASK MATT TO EDIT OUR REPLY TO HIM FIRST THING IN THE MORNING
IF ANYONE WANTS TO READ THE ORIGINAL POST BEFORE THE EDITS PERHAPS THE MODERATORS WILL BRING UP THE ORIGINAL REPLIES!?!?
IF ANYONE WANTS TO READ THE ORIGINAL POST BEFORE THE EDITS PERHAPS THE MODERATORS WILL BRING UP THE ORIGINAL REPLIES!?!?
I smoothed the introduction a bit (first two sentences) and maybe added an apostrophe in the word "don't".
If they do want to post my pre-edited post you, and more importantly everyone else will see that the body and real "meat and potatoes" of my post wasn't changed a bit. I don't recall exactly what I changed but I'm confident it was harmless and related mainly to the introduction and deleting a stray word or two that shouldn't have been there.
Where's the drama llama icon when you need it?!
Back to working on a motor....something far more productive.
-Tony
01-05-2012, 10:46 PM
#30
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You can't go wrong with either outfit. I looked closely at the PRC's & AFR's for my stock shortblock car, but I decided I didn't want to spend the $ so it was back to ported OEM castings. I ended up with AI given the results they're generating, especially with their 5.3 heads outperforming the PI 215cc 11degree offerings. Maybe someday if I build a stroker, it will be more worthwhile to go with a high end aftermarket head.
Tony is a stand up guy who probably knows more about this area than anyone working at GM, (AFR once did some consulting work for GM) and will take the time to educate you if need be . TSP is the same way. I've bought various parts from them recently, and Jon & Matt are both a great source of info and will shoot straight with you on the phone. I ended up saving some $ in the process.
FWIW, if the OP does a comparo on TSP's dyno, I think it's safe to say both heads are less than 10hp apart with an optimum cam choice tailored to each head. Given this and tight availability with some parts, I personally would be inclined to go with the source with the shortest lead time and be done with it.
Jason
Tony is a stand up guy who probably knows more about this area than anyone working at GM, (AFR once did some consulting work for GM) and will take the time to educate you if need be . TSP is the same way. I've bought various parts from them recently, and Jon & Matt are both a great source of info and will shoot straight with you on the phone. I ended up saving some $ in the process.
FWIW, if the OP does a comparo on TSP's dyno, I think it's safe to say both heads are less than 10hp apart with an optimum cam choice tailored to each head. Given this and tight availability with some parts, I personally would be inclined to go with the source with the shortest lead time and be done with it.
Jason
01-05-2012, 11:03 PM
#31
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I also want to say thanks for considering our product as well.
Another thing I want to touch on is that the PRC heads don't need to be "mamofied" to perform. I just can't see charging someone extra money on top of the normal cylinder heads to make it better. We worked really hard to produce a cylinder head that performs great for every customer right off the CNC machine without any additional work.
Another thing I want to touch on is that the PRC heads don't need to be "mamofied" to perform. I just can't see charging someone extra money on top of the normal cylinder heads to make it better. We worked really hard to produce a cylinder head that performs great for every customer right off the CNC machine without any additional work.
Tony is very up front with the results his "extra" work provides.
He also doesn't go public with everything he does to the parts.
But no one can afford to do what he does on a production basis.
Tony just provides the added service to those that want to spend the extra cash for that last little bit. -and know that the heads won't be dicked by someone that thinks they can port heads...this last comment is not directed at PRC or any of it's associates in any way!
Feel free to explain why your heads work better than AFR.
Not how you have made in USA parts and top quality machines.
Most haven't a clue about which CNC whatever is better than the other. But using the same stuff as other big name long established companies sure does make you look better. But is simply a distraction.
I know what parts AFR puts on their heads because I toured the factory and saw the cases of new parts sitting on the pallets. If you use different brand parts in your heads than AFR, then that alone would be sufficient for me personally to pass on your products.
Since you both use the same CNC machines the potential product quality is the same. The theory of the guy who did the original porting is another story. Both companies have a long standing reputation. Just not the same long standing reputation.....
01-05-2012, 11:38 PM
#32
This is a misleading statement and could be taken as AFR's need extra work to be correct. To state that you don't want to do something that another vendor is willing to do is BS.
Tony is very up front with the results his "extra" work provides.
He also doesn't go public with everything he does to the parts.
But no one can afford to do what he does on a production basis.
Tony just provides the added service to those that want to spend the extra cash for that last little bit. -and know that the heads won't be dicked by someone that thinks they can port heads...this last comment is not directed at PRC or any of it's associates in any way!
Feel free to explain why your heads work better than AFR.
Not how you have made in USA parts and top quality machines.
Most haven't a clue about which CNC whatever is better than the other. But using the same stuff as other big name long established companies sure does make you look better. But is simply a distraction.
I know what parts AFR puts on their heads because I toured the factory and saw the cases of new parts sitting on the pallets. If you use different brand parts in your heads than AFR, then that alone would be sufficient for me personally to pass on your products.
Since you both use the same CNC machines the potential product quality is the same. The theory of the guy who did the original porting is another story. Both companies have a long standing reputation. Just not the same long standing reputation.....
Tony is very up front with the results his "extra" work provides.
He also doesn't go public with everything he does to the parts.
But no one can afford to do what he does on a production basis.
Tony just provides the added service to those that want to spend the extra cash for that last little bit. -and know that the heads won't be dicked by someone that thinks they can port heads...this last comment is not directed at PRC or any of it's associates in any way!
Feel free to explain why your heads work better than AFR.
Not how you have made in USA parts and top quality machines.
Most haven't a clue about which CNC whatever is better than the other. But using the same stuff as other big name long established companies sure does make you look better. But is simply a distraction.
I know what parts AFR puts on their heads because I toured the factory and saw the cases of new parts sitting on the pallets. If you use different brand parts in your heads than AFR, then that alone would be sufficient for me personally to pass on your products.
Since you both use the same CNC machines the potential product quality is the same. The theory of the guy who did the original porting is another story. Both companies have a long standing reputation. Just not the same long standing reputation.....
Pretty much, if mamo does anything with the car, its awesome. I'll nutswing all day long because there is countless build threads, bench numbers, dyno sheets, timeslips, etc to back it up. I'll say it like this. The PRC is a wonderful head for the money, Ive seen great numbers especially with the new 215. However, if you had both set of heads put in front of you on a table and someone told you to pick whichever one you want, they are free...wonder which one you would pick up?
01-05-2012, 11:44 PM
#33
First, let me start by saying that Im not here to bash anyone. Ive done business BOTH directly with Tony, and TSP, and neither of them disappointed. TSP took good care of me when I ordered quite a few parts to rebuild my wife's engine (threw in some deals), and Tony took great care of me when I had the misfortune of destroying my engine.
Maybe Im missing something here, but what I quoted below ALL looks like your pretty much putting down AFR. You didnt say it flat out, but its pretty clear what was meant.
Just for my own curiosity, when you said your PRCs don't need to be "Mamofied" to perform, are you implying that they are absolutely perfect as-is, and that they wouldnt benefit at all from fine tuning by hand?
Ive personally seen proof that AFRs dont NEED to be touched up to perform. By that, I dont mean I read it online, or I took someones word for it. I mean, seeing the car assembled, taken to the shop, and dyno tuned proof.
Just for my own curiosity, when you said your PRCs don't need to be "Mamofied" to perform, are you implying that they are absolutely perfect as-is, and that they wouldnt benefit at all from fine tuning by hand?
Ive personally seen proof that AFRs dont NEED to be touched up to perform. By that, I dont mean I read it online, or I took someones word for it. I mean, seeing the car assembled, taken to the shop, and dyno tuned proof.
The PRC heads are very proven both online & in magazines. If you don't believe me, checkout the Hot Rod Magazine thread comparing cathedral heads. I believe the PRC heads out-performed the AFR 245 heads side-by-side in an independent shootout.
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/e...t/viewall.html
Another thing I want to touch on is that the PRC heads don't need to be "mamofied" to perform. I just can't see charging someone extra money on top of the normal cylinder heads to make it better. We worked really hard to produce a cylinder head that performs great for every customer right off the CNC machine without any additional work.
Here's a few things I notice between the PRC 215 & the AFR 215 Heads
PRC Heads 13 degree valve angle AFR 15 degree
PRC Better P/V Clearance
PRC .675" spring standard AFR springs standard .600", but you can get a .650" spring for extra money
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/e...t/viewall.html
Another thing I want to touch on is that the PRC heads don't need to be "mamofied" to perform. I just can't see charging someone extra money on top of the normal cylinder heads to make it better. We worked really hard to produce a cylinder head that performs great for every customer right off the CNC machine without any additional work.
Here's a few things I notice between the PRC 215 & the AFR 215 Heads
PRC Heads 13 degree valve angle AFR 15 degree
PRC Better P/V Clearance
PRC .675" spring standard AFR springs standard .600", but you can get a .650" spring for extra money
01-06-2012, 12:34 AM
#34
TSP was a bit out of line, then they apologized for it.
Maybe all of us don't know the *whole* story.............. Some of us, including me, should have thought about that.
I am neutral on this thread at this point.
Maybe all of us don't know the *whole* story.............. Some of us, including me, should have thought about that.
I am neutral on this thread at this point.
Last edited by lemons12; 01-06-2012 at 11:19 AM.
01-06-2012, 02:39 AM
#36
How light is that 9 second car? Proven in magazines? Everyone knows that doesn't mean ****. Magazines are just a big advertisement. With all the hate towards Tony and afr, I think you guys are intimidated by his companies product cause your sure acting like it. It would be cool to see a straight up comparison. Same compression, same motor. I say use two cams. One speced by tsp for the prcs heads and one specked by Tony for the afrs and then test the cams on both heads, a total of 4 tests.
01-06-2012, 03:41 AM
#38
TECH Fanatic
Both firms here do an excellent product....it's 'our' choice on whom we decide to use, price & performance from what we all learn from each other.
This thread really needs to be
enough has been said causing friction between 2 excellent companies...any more & fiction will occur between Tech members who are loyal to either respective firms....
let it be guys, let it be.
This thread really needs to be
enough has been said causing friction between 2 excellent companies...any more & fiction will occur between Tech members who are loyal to either respective firms....let it be guys, let it be.
01-06-2012, 06:35 AM
#39
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Woah, a lot of love in here! I haven't heard yet in this thread, and have never looked into it, but what is the price difference in these two setups? One would assume that the AFR/Tony combo would and should cost more because of all the port work done. But let's say if that gains you 10-15 hp over the non ported setup, how much extra does it cost? Not fair to compare the two in my opinion since one is receiving some fine tuning for an extra charge.
01-06-2012, 08:59 AM
#40
OK, there is a bunch of emphasis thrown at Tony Mamo because he edited his first post. Look at it below and compare it to post number 5. You will see that he only made edits to give better continuity and corrected some grammar.
In my opinion, there is nothing said here that takes a shot at PRC. Both are fine products. I have tested both and they are both tremendous offerings to the aftermarket. Both companies should be proud of presenting such excellent products to the LS community. When I bought my first LS1 in 1998, I could only dream of owning cylinder head this good. Now they're available and reasonably affordable to everyone. We should celebrate progress and put pettiness aside. 
Originally Posted by Tony Mamo @ AFR
AFR 215's.....
We basically took our 205 (actually our new 210 to be honest) and increased the port volume modestly for more peak flow potential while still retaining all the general "goodness" of the high airspeed efficient port design that has proven itself over and over again. I find alot of customers either go with the 205/210 or jump up to the new 230 while the reality is the 215 may just be the perfect middle ground.
The AFR castings are beefy (3/4 head deck), very high quality and made in the US not to mention come. Also all AFR castings come with a lifetime warranty and a two year warranty on all our parts to the original purchaser.
Barring flow and casting integrity there are other aspects of a cylinder head purchase that most individuals never consider....namely the more intricate machining. How accurate is the CNC program from port to port....what tolerance is the guides held to (Ive seen some scary stuff out there regarding horribly machined guides in brand new cylinder heads). How concentric is the valve job which effects sealing (power) and valvejob life. I will tell you there that we have some extremely modern high tech machines and very expensive tooling to produce what we do day in and day out. How much machine and tool maintenance is being performed?? (also very important in any production environment). Any decent shop can produce a one off head here and there for say a test but what is Joe Blow really getting when he calls and orders an off the shelf production head?
Anyway....I dont want to sound like an infomercial and while there are lots of good choices out there I know the quality and the customer support shines thru with AFR product. You do get what you pay for in life.....if we could do what we do and charge less to do it (without cutting corners!) we would, but there is soooo much that goes into a quality cylinder head I could write three pages and bore you to death with it.
Here is something off our website that addresses why you might consider AFR for your purchase....its actually quite informative if you have a few minutes to breeze thru it.
http://www.airflowresearch.com/why_afr.php
Cheers,
Tony
__________________
Anything worth doing is worth doing well. Build it right the first time....its alot cheaper than building it twice!!
We basically took our 205 (actually our new 210 to be honest) and increased the port volume modestly for more peak flow potential while still retaining all the general "goodness" of the high airspeed efficient port design that has proven itself over and over again. I find alot of customers either go with the 205/210 or jump up to the new 230 while the reality is the 215 may just be the perfect middle ground.
The AFR castings are beefy (3/4 head deck), very high quality and made in the US not to mention come. Also all AFR castings come with a lifetime warranty and a two year warranty on all our parts to the original purchaser.
Barring flow and casting integrity there are other aspects of a cylinder head purchase that most individuals never consider....namely the more intricate machining. How accurate is the CNC program from port to port....what tolerance is the guides held to (Ive seen some scary stuff out there regarding horribly machined guides in brand new cylinder heads). How concentric is the valve job which effects sealing (power) and valvejob life. I will tell you there that we have some extremely modern high tech machines and very expensive tooling to produce what we do day in and day out. How much machine and tool maintenance is being performed?? (also very important in any production environment). Any decent shop can produce a one off head here and there for say a test but what is Joe Blow really getting when he calls and orders an off the shelf production head?
Anyway....I dont want to sound like an infomercial and while there are lots of good choices out there I know the quality and the customer support shines thru with AFR product. You do get what you pay for in life.....if we could do what we do and charge less to do it (without cutting corners!) we would, but there is soooo much that goes into a quality cylinder head I could write three pages and bore you to death with it.
Here is something off our website that addresses why you might consider AFR for your purchase....its actually quite informative if you have a few minutes to breeze thru it.
http://www.airflowresearch.com/why_afr.php
Cheers,
Tony
__________________
Anything worth doing is worth doing well. Build it right the first time....its alot cheaper than building it twice!!
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2018 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 Pat G tuned.
LS1,LS2,LS3,LS7,LT1 Custom Camshaft Specialist For custom camshaft help press here.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2018 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 Pat G tuned.
LS1,LS2,LS3,LS7,LT1 Custom Camshaft Specialist For custom camshaft help press here.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.