im lost as far as upgrading my engine. i donot understand why i would go through the hassel of changing all the parts and go through all the wiring to put an ls3 in my 99 ss camaro over just buying a stroker ls1 long block from a company like texas speed. is their any advantage to going to a newer ls motor and also will my fast 92/92 and arh long tubes fit on any other ls i buy. please guys give me some direction to go in im so lost and need something to do this winter?

 

btw im not lookinng to build a race care, just a nasty daily driver

 

I like my 383 ls1. Very streetable and putting down respectable number for stock ported heads and small camshaft. Look in my sig

 

I believe an LS2 would be an easier conversion into an F-body than an LS3. Almost everything from your LS1 will still work/fit. You just need about $300 in conversion parts that TSP sells as a kit. If you can afford it, go with an LS2 402 stroker shortblock. You can re-use your old LS1 heads, get some LS3 heads, of if you have enough cash get some CNC ported heads from TSP or AFR.

Anyways, if you're gonna buy a forged shortblock for an F-body, skip the 383. If you're just buying a rotating assembly and re-using your old LS1 block, then go 383.

I *think* your headers would fit on any of those heads, but your FAST intake wouldn't fit on the LS3 heads.

 

ls3s have the rectangle ports...you only want cathedral port heads to match that intake...id say go for an ls2 or stroker ls1s to take advanatge of more cubes

 

Advantage? Probably not, but maybe. Big deal? Doubt it.
Having said that, when my ls1 took a **** I had considered making it a 383 but ultimately decided to just get a Gen IV 6.2 instead, as it was the best deal I could find after a few weeks of searching. The money was about a wash, and while the 383 would have been simpler I just liked the idea of the bigger motor.

 

I'd like to know what numbers you make when you get those tfs 225's on there with that ms3. I'm considering stroking my ls1 to a 383 and have a ms3 already. Only difference is I'm a 6spd, it's either that or build a 402.

 

How so? They require the exact same items to swap into an F-Body.

 

the numbers i made would have been more with a 10 bolt than the moser 12 that is under it now. lane at hinsons tuned mine and put a very conservative tune on it. when i put the 225s on it im going to have him put a more radical tune in it, im hoping for 460-470 at the tires and maybe a 6.80 pass on the motor

 

I'm so lost. I've been reading for a while and I just can't get these motors. Texas speed told me to buy a ls3 but I see 408 ls1 long blocks for sale on their website also so why would I go through the hassel if I don't have to. Please someone explain to me why I'm so lost with this. What would you guys do if your shooting for a reliable daily driver with some *****. Also I have some money saved up for this reason about 6k as of now

 

Cool make sure to post the results up. I haven't found many people with a 383 and ms3 so I'd love to see how that setup does.

 

Just do h/c/i with bolt ons. If you aren't looking to win for the fastest ET, stick with LS1. Sounds like you just want to enjoy the car with a little bit of bragging HP numbers.

With LS2/LS3 motor it's easier to make power with just a cam swap/intake vs with LS1.

What power goal do you want to have?

 

I loved my 383 but you can't deny the benefits of a LS3.

 

I want atleast 450 wheel. I just don't want the chop of a huge cam,thats why I'm considering big cubes.

 

450 is achievable, but it's all depends on your budget. LS3 would be the easiest route as far as mods go but it's not the cheapest, IMO.

BTW, your FAST 92/92 combo will not work with LS3 motor as the motor have rectangular intake ports vs LS1/LS2 have cathedral intake ports.

 

My 383 has TFS 225 heads, Fast 102/102, 240/244 cam 6 speed made 490hp/450 tq to the wheels through a S60 and magnaflow catback, im sure it will break 500 with the cutout open

 

Just so you know an ls3 is 376 cubic inches so a 383 would be bigger...but I agree it easier to
Make power with stock ls3 just bc it has a shorter stroke which will make better low end torque

 

There are basically 2 dimensions that change between the different motors. Stroke and bore.

Stroke in the distance the piston travels up and down the bore.
Three flavors that GM put in production engines are:
LR4 4.8 l truck motor had 3.268 inch.
Stock LS1/LS6/LS2/LS3/LQ4/LQ9 happen to share the same stroke of 3.622. This is the most common stroke available.
The 427 LS7 uses 4.0 stroke
Stroke has the greatest effect on torque and the rpm range the engine is designed to spend the most time in.
Longer strokes usually equal more torque and slower engine speeds. Truck engines are a good example of engines that benefit the most from stroke.
Shorter stroke equal less torque but higher rpm capacity. Most "supercars" have short strokes when compared to their bores. Applications are usually light weight cars that are more interested in power at speed.

THERE ARE ALWAYS EXCEPTIONS TO THE RULES!!

In GM's case they used the shortest stroke in a truck motor and the longest in their "supercar" go figure....
Short and long stroke both have their place in the performance world. What will work best for you depends on your application. It's easiest to stay with the 3.622 that is "dime a dozen common". The stock crank has proven to be very dependable.

If you were looking for the highest rpm possible or were racing in a class that required a small displacement engine the 3.268 has some real benefits. You would not want to use this crank in a motorhome application.

Conversely the 4.0 crank might not be the best choice for a ultralight road race car but it would be perfect in the motorhome.

Oversquare engines (bore is larger than stoke) are usually pointed towards higher rpm use. all of the stock GM LS series engines are oversquare.

Undersquare engines (stroke larger than bore) are usually pointed towards lower rpm use with maximum torque. Often Undersquare engines will be slightly more thermodynamically efficient (fuel economy). Heavy car applications/trucks/motor-homes are the applications here. a LS1 383 engine is undersquare... All things considered more torque through the total RPM range will accelerate a vehicle quicker. You can FEEL an extra 30 lbs of torque in the seat of your pants.


Next is bore. This is the diameter of the piston. Increasing piston diameter gives more surface area for the expanding mixture to push against. It also reduces bore shrouding which can effect flow around the valves. Most often an increase in bore size creates larger gains than an increase in stroke but once again there are always exceptions to the rules.

One important thing to remember regarding LS series motors is that after you have a bore size of 4.00 or better ALL of the normal heads (not the LS7) will bolt right up. the LS1 bore size of 3.8990 limits you to using the cathedral port heads.
This is not that big a thing as the current crop of cathedral heads available will support a serious amount of power and it appears the rectangular port heads have some issues with what is called "lazy" part throttle port flow.

You currently have one of the better intakes available for a cathedral port head but it can be sold for far more than a rectangular port manifold will cost you.

Regarding building performance starting with a block that allows the largest bore is good advice IMO. The limitations of the LS1 bore halt power production for a street application at approx 500 hp and 500 LBS/FT. These figures go up 20-25% with a bore change from 3.8990 to 4.060. Thats only a .161" difference! The LS1 block can be sleeved to larger bores but it is usually more expensive than purchasing a 4 inch bore block and its dependability is determined by the quality of the machine shop.

The information I presented is all generalizations and has been simplified for easy of comprehension. I hope I was successful.

Your choice needs to be a personal choice. There is more garbage info available on the Internet than good...

The vendors on this forum appear to give excellent advice!

IMO (and I have been wrong before!) the best combo for affordable street power is the iron 6.0l LQ4/LQ9 block (4.00-4.06 bore depending on machining) with a 4" stroke aftermarket crank. Pistons designed for 10.5-11.0 comp ratio, good flowing cathedral heads. the intake manifold you currently have. A properly spec-ed cam. free flow long tube headers. non restrictive exhaust. The normal mods... This should give you excellent torque and power, have stellar low-midrange response and be dependable. This is the 408 combo you mentioned. 6K sounds like a reasonable buget IMO. The iron motor should add approx 70 lbs to your car.

My 2 cents. I type too much
Hope it helped
Rick

 

A friend of mine was shooting for the cam only record. Car was lightened(chromemoly) suspension car with totally stock heads, 346. Fast 90 intake. Ran 10.38. I ran a 383 afr225 headed motor and was .04 behind him. You do not need to go crazy to make these motors run good. Light weight, good valve springs, decent cam and suspension.

 

Tech ninja you are right bout shorter stroke making less torque but more rpms, I thought I had that backwards after I posted

Another thing is getting an ls3 does give you the option to run the latest and greatest rectangle port heads, so if u got the cash do an ls3 and just use the gmpp controller to make it happen!