Another build question.....! :eyes:
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Another build question.....! :eyes: Ok, so I went out and bought a 2000 LS1 out of a Camero, complete with harness, ECU and accesories. The motor has about 90k on it. Havent looked inside to see how it is yet.
This motor will be going into a Porsche 944 and I would like to bump the compression up just a bit.
As of right now, I will only be building up just the bottom end and will get to the heads and cam hopefully by the end of the year (slowly breaking the wife down).
This is my starting point:
I've read on here that the stock crank is fairly stought, so it will be retained.
Wisco pistons - k398x3905 which obviously will mean to hone the block out (0.007ths over if I am correct, to a 3.905 displacement).
Eagle H-beam rods - crs61250
with new clevit and durabond bearings.
I was told that I could run this for a while, still giving the motor a little pep, while waiting to get heads and a cam to make my overall compression around 11.5-1.
Any advice, changes, discrepencies any of you have noticed or would be willing to add.
The car will be lite and my hopes are to have the motor push a reliable 425-450.
I was told that as long as I run 93 pump gas with this setup, I shouldnt have any issues.
Thanks in advance for taking a look.
This motor will be going into a Porsche 944 and I would like to bump the compression up just a bit.
As of right now, I will only be building up just the bottom end and will get to the heads and cam hopefully by the end of the year (slowly breaking the wife down).
This is my starting point:
I've read on here that the stock crank is fairly stought, so it will be retained.
Wisco pistons - k398x3905 which obviously will mean to hone the block out (0.007ths over if I am correct, to a 3.905 displacement).
Eagle H-beam rods - crs61250
with new clevit and durabond bearings.
I was told that I could run this for a while, still giving the motor a little pep, while waiting to get heads and a cam to make my overall compression around 11.5-1.
Any advice, changes, discrepencies any of you have noticed or would be willing to add.
The car will be lite and my hopes are to have the motor push a reliable 425-450.
I was told that as long as I run 93 pump gas with this setup, I shouldnt have any issues.
Thanks in advance for taking a look.
Last edited by jayman1869; Jan 13, 2012 at 07:27 PM. Reason: grammer
That is a solid bottom end plan for sure...
To meet your power goals while only going .005 over I would say you are going to need aftermarket head castings ( afr, trick flow, mast) and a serious cam of the high 230s/low 240s on duration variety....also you will want to run a 102 fast intake/ throttle body with all other supporting Hilton's like headers, lid, exhaust, etc. also in order to get your desired compression you wil need 58cc chamber heads and the 40 thousandths cosmetic head gaskets and that should get near 11.5 to 1... Prob about 11.25 if I had to guess assuming the pistons are flat tops...
Make sure y
To meet your power goals while only going .005 over I would say you are going to need aftermarket head castings ( afr, trick flow, mast) and a serious cam of the high 230s/low 240s on duration variety....also you will want to run a 102 fast intake/ throttle body with all other supporting Hilton's like headers, lid, exhaust, etc. also in order to get your desired compression you wil need 58cc chamber heads and the 40 thousandths cosmetic head gaskets and that should get near 11.5 to 1... Prob about 11.25 if I had to guess assuming the pistons are flat tops...
Make sure y
That is a solid bottom end plan for sure...
To meet your power goals while only going .005 over I would say you are going to need aftermarket head castings ( afr, trick flow, mast) and a serious cam of the high 230s/low 240s on duration variety....also you will want to run a 102 fast intake/ throttle body with all other supporting Hilton's like headers, lid, exhaust, etc. also in order to get your desired compression you wil need 58cc chamber heads and the 40 thousandths cosmetic head gaskets and that should get near 11.5 to 1... Prob about 11.25 if I had to guess assuming the pistons are flat tops...
Make sure yOu have a good clutch you will need it!
To meet your power goals while only going .005 over I would say you are going to need aftermarket head castings ( afr, trick flow, mast) and a serious cam of the high 230s/low 240s on duration variety....also you will want to run a 102 fast intake/ throttle body with all other supporting Hilton's like headers, lid, exhaust, etc. also in order to get your desired compression you wil need 58cc chamber heads and the 40 thousandths cosmetic head gaskets and that should get near 11.5 to 1... Prob about 11.25 if I had to guess assuming the pistons are flat tops...
Make sure yOu have a good clutch you will need it!
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Thread Starter
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 17
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That is a solid bottom end plan for sure...
To meet your power goals while only going .005 over I would say you are going to need aftermarket head castings ( afr, trick flow, mast) and a serious cam of the high 230s/low 240s on duration variety....also you will want to run a 102 fast intake/ throttle body with all other supporting Hilton's like headers, lid, exhaust, etc. also in order to get your desired compression you wil need 58cc chamber heads and the 40 thousandths cosmetic head gaskets and that should get near 11.5 to 1... Prob about 11.25 if I had to guess assuming the pistons are flat tops...
Make sure yOu have a good clutch you will need it!
To meet your power goals while only going .005 over I would say you are going to need aftermarket head castings ( afr, trick flow, mast) and a serious cam of the high 230s/low 240s on duration variety....also you will want to run a 102 fast intake/ throttle body with all other supporting Hilton's like headers, lid, exhaust, etc. also in order to get your desired compression you wil need 58cc chamber heads and the 40 thousandths cosmetic head gaskets and that should get near 11.5 to 1... Prob about 11.25 if I had to guess assuming the pistons are flat tops...
Make sure yOu have a good clutch you will need it!
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agreed.
I look at it like this;
if I build the bottom end now, I can drop it in and be done with it and do the heads in a bit without having to pull the motor.
if I do the heads and cam now, I would have to pull the motor again to do the bottom end.
I'd rather not pull it more than once.
I look at it like this;
if I build the bottom end now, I can drop it in and be done with it and do the heads in a bit without having to pull the motor.
if I do the heads and cam now, I would have to pull the motor again to do the bottom end.
I'd rather not pull it more than once.
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Verdad Gallardo If you run the 243/799 heads the benefit is you will be able to get them CNc ported in the future when you decide to step it up, but as far as budget goes ls6 heads and intake are the way to go top end wise, plus they bump up compression compared to ls1 heads...also if you are handy with a grinder or dremel you can clesomehow runners of the ls6 heads and get a great bang for your buck set of heads
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Why are you looking to forge the bottom? Are you planning in FI or NOS? What are your goals? Going forged WILL NOT get you any additional power, just adds reliability when dramatically increasing cylinder pressures and running close to the edge when tuning.
If you are going NA I would possibly re-ring it and replace the rod bolts, top it off with AI 243 heads and a FAST intake and decent cam then call it a day. You can attain your desired bump in compression by milling the heads alone. AI has a pretty decent selection of cams that they match to their heads, I would ask what they recommend. Follow this up with a tune from a REPUTABLE shop (preferably a vendor here) and you should reliably attain your goals.
Its hard to give advise when you don't state what your goals are or why you want to go a particular route. Also, I would strongly advise against screwing up a perfectly good set of 243's with a dremel tool, if you have 243's you can get a professional CNC job that flows 306 CFM + for near $1k.
If you are going NA I would possibly re-ring it and replace the rod bolts, top it off with AI 243 heads and a FAST intake and decent cam then call it a day. You can attain your desired bump in compression by milling the heads alone. AI has a pretty decent selection of cams that they match to their heads, I would ask what they recommend. Follow this up with a tune from a REPUTABLE shop (preferably a vendor here) and you should reliably attain your goals.
Its hard to give advise when you don't state what your goals are or why you want to go a particular route. Also, I would strongly advise against screwing up a perfectly good set of 243's with a dremel tool, if you have 243's you can get a professional CNC job that flows 306 CFM + for near $1k.
i used a grinder and porting sanding rolls to clean up the slag in the ports and bowls from the factory casting...i flow benched the heads before and after and i only gained flow, maybe not as much as a 1000 dollar cnc job, but enough that i got gains for FREE! besides i wouldnt waste my time paying 1000 for a port job i would just get aftermarket heads for a few hundred more...not everyone has stupid amounts of money to dump in their car...i increased flow on my heads for under 20 dollars...so save your 1000 port jobs for the kids in the suburbs, i prefer to make gains the old school way, even if my heads dont flow 300+ cfm...i did a head and cam swap for under 1000 total and picked up 8-9 tenths on my quarter mile time so it just goes to show you dont need a huge wallet to go fast!!!
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Why are you looking to forge the bottom? Are you planning in FI or NOS? What are your goals? Going forged WILL NOT get you any additional power, just adds reliability when dramatically increasing cylinder pressures and running close to the edge when tuning.
If you are going NA I would possibly re-ring it and replace the rod bolts, top it off with AI 243 heads and a FAST intake and decent cam then call it a day. You can attain your desired bump in compression by milling the heads alone. AI has a pretty decent selection of cams that they match to their heads, I would ask what they recommend. Follow this up with a tune from a REPUTABLE shop (preferably a vendor here) and you should reliably attain your goals.
Its hard to give advise when you don't state what your goals are or why you want to go a particular route. Also, I would strongly advise against screwing up a perfectly good set of 243's with a dremel tool, if you have 243's you can get a professional CNC job that flows 306 CFM + for near $1k.
If you are going NA I would possibly re-ring it and replace the rod bolts, top it off with AI 243 heads and a FAST intake and decent cam then call it a day. You can attain your desired bump in compression by milling the heads alone. AI has a pretty decent selection of cams that they match to their heads, I would ask what they recommend. Follow this up with a tune from a REPUTABLE shop (preferably a vendor here) and you should reliably attain your goals.
Its hard to give advise when you don't state what your goals are or why you want to go a particular route. Also, I would strongly advise against screwing up a perfectly good set of 243's with a dremel tool, if you have 243's you can get a professional CNC job that flows 306 CFM + for near $1k.
The reason I wanted to put in the rods and pistons, is because I wanted the bottom end to last. I plan on running the car pretty hard, but do not have plans for a turbo. Nitrous has come up, but I may only spray it a few times after I get a good tune running it as NA for a while.
Key phrase is that I want it to last!
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From: Maryland
IMHO you don't really need the added expense of going forged, you have realistic goals that are actually somewhat easily attainable while maintaining reliability using a stock block.
Hell, I am at 487 whp with stock LS6 internals (pretty much no difference to LS1 bottom end), and that's with a supercharger. I would strongly recommend the rod bolts, but I don't think you are in any danger using stock internals at 425-450 as long as you do not go over a 150 shot and take it easy on the funny gas when you do use it. Another V guy has a H/C/I LS6 with a 150 shot and he's at 509 whp...and has been for years.
You can do whatever you want, and maybe someone else can speak up here, but I would save the cash. Besides, it will start adding up quickly enough when doing just the heads, cam, intake, etc. I would call up a few vendors and get a few opinions on your goals and how to achieve them rather than commit to a certain route.
Just my $ .02.
BTW - Sorry, I could only assume that you are speaking about rwhp, not crank hp. Also, I didn't know how often this would be driven on the street, and what level of drivability you needed to maintain, which makes a HUGE difference. If this is a weekend warrior type deal and not a commuter, the sky is pretty much the limit. The stock internals are a little stronger than people initially realize, hell, completely stock 5.3's and 4.8's have been turbo'd to well over 1000 crank hp (Chevy HP just did a 1200 hp stock block/heads 4.8 from a junkyard) and these things just don't die...unless the tuning is off.
Hell, I am at 487 whp with stock LS6 internals (pretty much no difference to LS1 bottom end), and that's with a supercharger. I would strongly recommend the rod bolts, but I don't think you are in any danger using stock internals at 425-450 as long as you do not go over a 150 shot and take it easy on the funny gas when you do use it. Another V guy has a H/C/I LS6 with a 150 shot and he's at 509 whp...and has been for years.
You can do whatever you want, and maybe someone else can speak up here, but I would save the cash. Besides, it will start adding up quickly enough when doing just the heads, cam, intake, etc. I would call up a few vendors and get a few opinions on your goals and how to achieve them rather than commit to a certain route.
Just my $ .02.
BTW - Sorry, I could only assume that you are speaking about rwhp, not crank hp. Also, I didn't know how often this would be driven on the street, and what level of drivability you needed to maintain, which makes a HUGE difference. If this is a weekend warrior type deal and not a commuter, the sky is pretty much the limit. The stock internals are a little stronger than people initially realize, hell, completely stock 5.3's and 4.8's have been turbo'd to well over 1000 crank hp (Chevy HP just did a 1200 hp stock block/heads 4.8 from a junkyard) and these things just don't die...unless the tuning is off.
Last edited by DMM; Jan 14, 2012 at 02:02 PM.
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IMHO you don't really need the added expense of going forged, you have realistic goals that are actually somewhat easily attainable while maintaining reliability using a stock block.
Hell, I am at 487 whp with stock LS6 internals (pretty much no difference to LS1 bottom end), and that's with a supercharger. I would strongly recommend the rod bolts, but I don't think you are in any danger using stock internals at 425-450 as long as you do not go over a 150 shot and take it easy on the funny gas when you do use it. Another V guy has a H/C/I LS6 with a 150 shot and he's at 509 whp...and has been for years.
You can do whatever you want, and maybe someone else can speak up here, but I would save the cash. Besides, it will start adding up quickly enough when doing just the heads, cam, intake, etc. I would call up a few vendors and get a few opinions on your goals and how to achieve them rather than commit to a certain route.
Just my $ .02.
BTW - Sorry, I could only assume that you are speaking about rwhp, not crank hp. Also, I didn't know how often this would be driven on the street, and what level of drivability you needed to maintain, which makes a HUGE difference. If this is a weekend warrior type deal and not a commuter, the sky is pretty much the limit. The stock internals are a little stronger than people initially realize, hell, completely stock 5.3's and 4.8's have been turbo'd to well over 1000 crank hp (Chevy HP just did a 1200 hp stock block/heads 4.8 from a junkyard) and these things just don't die...unless the tuning is off.
Hell, I am at 487 whp with stock LS6 internals (pretty much no difference to LS1 bottom end), and that's with a supercharger. I would strongly recommend the rod bolts, but I don't think you are in any danger using stock internals at 425-450 as long as you do not go over a 150 shot and take it easy on the funny gas when you do use it. Another V guy has a H/C/I LS6 with a 150 shot and he's at 509 whp...and has been for years.
You can do whatever you want, and maybe someone else can speak up here, but I would save the cash. Besides, it will start adding up quickly enough when doing just the heads, cam, intake, etc. I would call up a few vendors and get a few opinions on your goals and how to achieve them rather than commit to a certain route.
Just my $ .02.
BTW - Sorry, I could only assume that you are speaking about rwhp, not crank hp. Also, I didn't know how often this would be driven on the street, and what level of drivability you needed to maintain, which makes a HUGE difference. If this is a weekend warrior type deal and not a commuter, the sky is pretty much the limit. The stock internals are a little stronger than people initially realize, hell, completely stock 5.3's and 4.8's have been turbo'd to well over 1000 crank hp (Chevy HP just did a 1200 hp stock block/heads 4.8 from a junkyard) and these things just don't die...unless the tuning is off.
I guess the first thing I need to do is break down the block and see what the condition of it is. If its fairly good, then a re-ring is doable.
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whatever dude, I payed 1k for a complete motor. took it apart tonight and it actually looks great.
not all of us are as awesome as you!!
"1998 Z28 under construction" - "camero"
per your sig !!!!
not all of us are as awesome as you!!
"1998 Z28 under construction" - "camero"
per your sig !!!!
a Z28 is a Camaro...notice the difference? there is no such thing as a "Camero"
Dont start calling me out on your own ignorance...it will only make you look worse.