KCS

iTrader: (20)

It's not magic, it's just well thought out. 500whp from a 383ci LSx is either llimited by a budget or the builder's understanding of the internal combustion engine.

3rdCoastPowerSports

iTrader: (5)

i still dont see anyone getting 600 rwhp (N/A) out of a stock sleeved LS1 block

crazyelf

iTrader: (21)

Im just saying its not an every day occurence, probably because Of peoples budgets for sure.

99 Blue Bird

iTrader: (3)

y dont you just use a truck manifold on the driver side and a c6 manifold on the passenger side and keep your a/c.

00 Freak

iTrader: (34)

most certainly going to go with more cubes if i stay N/A. Just haven't seen a lot of cars go N/A with that kinda power on the streets. seen a couple 454 lsx's and damn they are bad ***.
As for going with FI I'm reading on more of the 6.0 truck manifolds to keep A/C and D1 setups would be the biggest i can go with without sacrificing my A/C. Damn too many different routes i have no idea which way to go and i definitely want to pick the best route for overall power

JS01

iTrader: (10)

Decent set of heads/intake and about 8000rpm would get one there. (thru a 6-speed at least.)

Blk98Vert

iTrader: (2)

Sure get an RHS 502 and I can see it

Tony Mamo @ AFR

iTrader: (13)

Guys....

600 RWHP is very close to 700 at the crank.

If we are discussing a combo in even semi streetable trim its going to take some cubic inch, great heads, and a well thought out combination to get there.....not to mention alot of money for all of the above.

It can be done but look for 427 CID or better and all the trimmings. It will cost more to do it N/A than it would bolting a supercharger on a smaller engine (or a larger one for that matter) but the power delivery of both is very different. Me....I personally love a ripping N/A engine.....especially a big smallblock making big block power and part of me likes it because its sooo much more challenging (and rewarding) to achieve. Who doesn't respect a hard hitting N/A combo that can put some power adder combos in the rear view mirror....its freakin great

My Darth Vader thread in this same section (Gen III Internal) features a heavily optimized 454 CID build Im still working on in an attempt to get closer to 750 HP at the crank when Im finished with all my R&D (Im not far away now in my current configuration). And that is being done with a set of optimized AFR cathedral heads so the torque curve is insane btw (versus the square port stuff which is never as strong off the bottom).

"Vadar" should easily see 625+ to the ground in my C5.....possibly inching close to 650 but at this power level the CAI and the exhaust and other issues related to the vehicle may keep it closer to 625....still a sizable feat in a very streetable package with a hyd. roller cam.

My 383 was mentioned a few times....IMO it was one of the stoutest 383's I have seen (not magic....just another really good optimized package) and it averaged about 540 to the rear wheels (that engine made 620 at the flywheel btw).

OP.....long story short, you need displacement and deep pockets to make that number N/A....not to mention the right combination because you could spend a heap of money and still fall short 50 HP with the wrong combination of parts. Its attainable but you just have to know what your dealing with heading into a project of this nature......that or find the money to pay someone you trust to do it for you!

Dont forget that achieving this type of figure in a streetable N/A combination with a typical FAST intake/hyd roller set-up requires almost everything be romanced and optimized including all the machine work. Even good out of the box parts will still leave you falling short (hence the reason you don't see it done very often). Its alot easier to make 50 RWHP less that much I can assure you....



-Tony

00 Freak

iTrader: (34)

I would love to stay N/A but your right Tony theres a lot of money that goes into it. The main reason why i wanted to N/A is because i really didnt wanna hack up my car. Main reason i go to ghetto tracks and dont install my roll cage in the car lol. But i decided to go with FI and use a turbo system that i like to keep it to the minimum. Now my next step is looking for that FI shortblock to build my foundation on. Thinking of a forged 408cu in to start at. Thinking of AFR heads and i dont know what kind of intake manifold. I already have a ported 90/90 setup but thats matched up wit my TFS heads i have. TFS heads are milled before ppl ask why i dont stay with those lol. But either way it'll be some pricey heads so i can turn up the boost so i can reach my goal of at least 800rwhp. So if theres any builders out there lmk and i can give more details for what i want to do.

TransAmcoupe98

iTrader: (10)

Don't use a stroker motor for boost. Boost usually likes a bigger bore but short stroke. A 6.0l with a good bottom end and boost pistons.

gpr

iTrader: (6)

please explain, why wouldn't a stroker motor like boost?

2000_SS

iTrader: (24)

i've got one


....well, almost. 583rwhp in 115* heat & humidity with tuning left to do

00 Freak

iTrader: (34)

im guessing thats the popular setup to go with a 370 setup. Ive been up for a few hours researching and i see a lot of ppl going with this setup. And one of the best parts its cost effective so i can put money else where Its funny cuz i wanted to just do a budget build w/ 346 forged setup and now its going to a FI setup probably doubling my HP lol. ugh so indecisive. stupid ADD. but now I'm very comfortable with this setup.

Tony Mamo @ AFR

iTrader: (13)

Yes....congrats btw and for any of you folks who missed his incredibly detailed build thread (including all the little " extras" and TLC invested) this is the perfect example of the point I was trying to make earlier.....it's an enormous effort even to get close!



Here is a lil' ole 417 CID piece that we also got close to 600 RWHP (578 RWHP thru a Mustang dyno).....once again though a very detailed, optimized N/A build. Its a good read for those interested in trying to optimize an LS3 block combination which is the bargain stroker motor at this point (you don't have the expense of an aftermarket or a sleeved block)

With a larger bore block, a little more displacement, and a slightly larger cam, I think we could have nipped 600 to the ground (or gotten really close) even with the optimized 230 heads featured in that build.

https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamomet...is-dyno-s.html


BTW, there is nothing wrong with a stroker motor and forced induction.....in fact it helps with some of the off boost "softness" thats inherent in most of the centrifugal boosted combo's due to lower compression and spinning the blower when its not actually benefiting you and making boost.....till that happens it just represents more parasitic loss and will rob your crankshaft of some power.

In fact, thats some of the allure of a high powered N/A set-up.....its just explosive in comparison but ultimately if your goals are set on making really big power, that can only be accomplished with a power adder (blower, turbo, nitrous) if your trying to keep the car semi-streetable.

-Tony

Marc 85Z28

iTrader: (8)

Not a single one of the setup recommendations so far will get you 600rwhp with that 4L60E and 9" rear. Can you make 600rwhp N/A with that driveline? Sure, but you'll need a minimum 4" bore/4" stroke and maybe even a solid roller with an expensive sheetmetal intake. You'll need every bit of 7200-7500rpm and it certainly won't be cheap.

dtroike

iTrader: (4)

Maybe a better goal would be what et's you want to be able to run with your car. There are plenty of FI options that would allow you to keep your AC and be much more streetable. As for cost, A good FI setup will probably still cost you more money when its all said and done. You will still need to buy all the same things for the bottom end (a good crank, rods, studs, machine work, pistons and rings for a 370 are the same price as a 441) and the money you save from a cheaper set of heads and intake if you choose won't make up for the price of a good FI system. Then figure the cost of a good nitrous system. Like Tony said it is much easier to get 50 hp less. If you want to use nitrous in a stand alone tank w race fuel, it will be a piece of cake to get well over 600 rwhp and still run on pump in your main tank. Thats what im using and im pretty happy. A turbo would have been my first choice though. A #62 nitrous jet on your current combo could probably get you in the low 10's if it hooks up good.

2000_SS

iTrader: (24)

People don't seem to realize the real world cost of a build like this. if i could do it over, i'd love to have a boosted setup, but the cost would be pretty outrageous. My NA 454 is pushing the $15K mark, and i did A LOT of the work myself....figure in another $3-$4K for turbos and necessary mods...then suspension to plant the power, tires, driveshaft, etc...

it comes down to what kind of bragging rights you want. My car hasn't made a clean pass down the track yet because i got asked to leave for not having a cage, but i still managed 130mph. Not too shabby for a 3460# car on pump gas and a T56. A better tire, track, and a TH400 and i have a 9sec DD. My best ET was a 11.23 but that was with a 2.3 60'...it should pull at least 1.6's.

You gotta remember the old saying "Fast, cheap, reliable....you can have only two." FWIW, based on my experience, if you hit 600rwhp through a A4 and a 9", it wouldn't be streetable.

Patrick G

iTrader: (14)

David Llerena in southern Florida has a 440ci GTO with MAST LS7 heads and one of my custom cams that makes 640rwhp through an automatic. Details of the build are here:

https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...y-pic-pg3.html

Again, not cheap, but very powerful!

2000_SS

iTrader: (24)

i've been reading more and more good things about Mast lately...That GTO is pretty impressive.

i might do a head swap this summer. Tony tried to give me a set of his 245cc's, but i couldn't verify that they would work with my pistons...might give it a go anyway in search of a couple more ponies.

COPO9560

Isn't this a solid roller cam car??