Tony Mamo @ AFR

iTrader: (13)

So last week sometime I started a thread in the Gen III internal section about this particular build. For those that want more specifics, detail, etc., feel free to check that out here.

https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...-hit-dyno.html

For the others who dont care and/or have the time, Im copying and pasting what I just posted last night updating that thread with all the hard data, pics, vids, etc....essentially the "juice" most of those following the original thread were waiting for.

Enjoy....

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Well....

Last Thursday was one of those dyno days you dream about....

Besides the heat (it was over 100' most of the day), everything went fairly smooth and the engine slightly bested my higher hopes heading into the much anticipated day.

It certainly made more bottom end torque than I expected and a little more HP as well.....couple that with a table top torque curve that hung on extremely well and the end results were just pretty as a picture. It looks like the new "V2" AFR 230 is as effective as I hoped it would be because this 416.5 CID engine (4.071 bore / 4" stroke), seemed to make more torque and horsepower than its displacement might indicate or at the least a best case scenario for sure.

It made over 500 ft/lbs of torque from 3400 to 6900 RPM's (incredibly broad curve).....peaked at 579 but made over 570 (very close to it's peak output) for over 1300 RPM's! Peak power occurred at 6600 where it lopped up 663 HP (I was hoping for 650 ish) and it was still making 650 at 7000 RPM! With the bottom of the curve looking so good I just wouldn't have expected the top to be so strong or visa versa depending how you want to look at it.

Here is a picture of the power curve that really tells the story.....for the application we are discussing here it doesn't get much better, especially considering this is a hydraulic roller combination with zero maintenance or lash adjustment.





Believe it or not, Jeremy and I have been discussing this project for the better part of two years.....and while a few of the players changed along the way (different heads, intake, etc.) the end results most certainly justified the wait. This project is going in a cherry low mileage 2001 Firehawk (17K on the clock), and while F-Bodies generally aren't known for their hero dyno numbers (Vettes produce better results as a rule) I have a hunch this particular F-Body is going to lay down a fairly stout number. Having had multiple engine combo's on Westech's dyno and shortly after installed in my Vette, I can say confidently that with the right tune, this engine would have generated around 580 RWHP and close to 540 RWTQ in my personal vehicle. That's retarded power from a 91 octane build of moderate displacement that would also have brutal area under the curve in torque output, good throttle response and drivability, and a reasonable idle as well. In fact this engine made almost 12" of vacuum at 950-1000 RPM. While I can only speculate what this package will do in Jeremy's F-body, I feel confident its more of matter of how good it will look....LOL

Look at the comparison below....





The black line is my former solid roller 383, which was a very stout combo that I cant emphasize enough how well that motor ran (130 trap in my 3400 lb C5). The red line is Steve Smith's engine I built and dyno'ed a couple of months ago which IMO was also very impressive with our new 215's and made 540/500 in his Corvette....and of course the blue line, Jeremy's 417 build which lays waste to my 383 at every RPM and puts a sizable lead on the 407 build as well (which of course wasn't quite as large or quite as aggressive as this build which I highlighted earlier in the thread). The bottom line here is this combination surprised me a little but these are the types of surprises that we all welcome.

So to wrap up I thought I would share a few pics and a couple of vids from the dyno day....

The first taken by Jeremy's wife (great gal) of the two of us off to the dyno as I pick up Jeremy in front of the hotel he was staying at the time.





Next up a nice clean shot of the engine before it was covered in 100 miles of wiring and various sensors!






Steve Brule (this guy has pulled the handle on more engines than anyone in the country likely!) filling the block with water.....getting close!





Brule and I having a lighter moment before we light the engine and it's all business....






And at the end of the day (after all the smoke cleared from the twenty or so pulls), a "happily baffled" Mamo staring at the comparison of the three engines I shared with you above....LOL







Last but not least a couple of vids.....the first with the engine included in the cell.....the second just the dyno screen where its easier to see how stout this piece is and how quickly it ramps up into the fat part of the torque curve. Click on these two pics below to be linked to the video











Here is the hard data from the best pull of the day....







And last but not least, Jeremy having an "intimate moment" with his new engine after we unloaded it from the dyno!







Hope you guys enjoyed the journey.....this engine gets shipped to Canada next week. Its going to take a little while, but hopefully we have some rear wheel numbers by early/mid October....

Cheers,
Tony

Patrick G

iTrader: (14)

Great write up Tony. Love all the detail and the photos and graphs. Makes me very excited to see the results of my new AFR 230 V2 heads on my 6.0L and how they will out-perform the stock L92 heads that are currently on it.

nysbadmk8

When do these heads start shipping? Cost?

Stage7

iTrader: (1)

Fantastic results and info Tony. Congrats!

Engine_HP

iTrader: (1)

what are the AFR 230 V2, are they ported 225 ?

Patrick G

iTrader: (14)

These heads are the all-new CNC heads from AFR that supercede the AFR 225s. The 225s will no longer be available. The 230s are the replacements. The 230s are now shipping. Check your AFR dealer for best pricing.

LIL SS

iTrader: (9)

Tony,

I know it's hard to speculate the difference, but how much more power you think the 230's make over the 225's on this combo?

Can you also give us some header info that was used on the dyno. The primaries look to be of good size..

Tony Mamo @ AFR

iTrader: (13)

Those who follow my builds know I don't leave many stones unturned and Im very detail oriented in every aspect of the build (addressing the fact I would have likely built a better than average performing piece even with stock 225's), but the question you pose being how much less would a stock out of the box 225 perform....I would have to guess around 15 - 20 HP but I am purely speculating....some of that speculation is taking into account the amount of airflow improvements made with the new design and what I have seen in the past on the dyno from similar improvements in airflow (its not just a wild guess....LOL)

I'm comfortable saying I seriously doubt less than 12 and a seriously doubt more than 25.....perhaps thats a better way to respond (with a reasonable likelihood the real value is somewhere between those two figures).

The headers....nothing trick or magical there. They are 1.875 ARH headers that are actually made to fit a 2010 new Camaro.....they work well on the dyno because they are reasonably wide spaced between the collectors and aim the exhaust straight back.

Jeremy will run the same brand and size in his F-Body but a set designed to clear his chassis and model year obviously.

Thanks,
Tony

PS.....The V2 230's are available to order right now btw. They are available in 72 and 62 cc chambers....can mill anywhere in the middle or as low as 55 cc if needed.

PSS.....You guys will get another glimpse at their potential with Pat G's build coming soon. That's going to be extremely interesting because he is going from a good running LS3 set-up back to cathedral but my guess is its going to leave nothing but smiles when the smoke clears, and besides what I hope to be reasonably strong peak figures, I bet the sharpness in the engine response part throttle is really going to be noticeable.

BLK02WS6

iTrader: (2)

Nice lookin curves Tony! That's gonna be one hella-fun F-Body... Will be interesting to see how Patrick's goes...

ExceSSive

iTrader: (13)

Awesome results...can not wait to see more...

DBN

iTrader: (6)

Do you know if Steve Brule is a former drag boat racer? If so, he should remember me as we raced in the same class (Pro Gas Jet) back in the 90's.

Tony Mamo @ AFR

iTrader: (13)

Thanks guys....

And yes, Steve is a former drag boat racer.....same guy. In fact his boat still sits at Westech and he's looking to unload it if you know anyone. Really nice boat....best of everything kind of thing.....he just doesn't really have the time to run it anymore so its mainly collecting dust.

He's a good guy....also one of the sharpest dyno operators and all around "engine savvy" guys in the country in my opinion.

-Tony

DBN

iTrader: (6)

Tell him to shoot me some pictures of his boat to my email (dniceley@comcast.net) and I will ask around.

WSsick

iTrader: (13)

Wow, congrats. That is going to be a seriously fun car. Whats funny is you see some guys here struggling to put down 510rwhp with a 408/416ci, and you are going to make 70 more than that with a torque curve that looks almost PD blower-esk.


Just to be clear in casse my reading skills failed me, that was out of the box 230s, correct?

Tony Mamo @ AFR

iTrader: (13)

"Mamofied"....."Mamo romanced"....."Mamo massaged"....pic your favorite Mamo-ism (there was a joke or two in the other thread about that!)

If you have time you should check the original thread I linked with more details of the build in the Internal section. Once again I want to emphasize it was more of a slight "romance" to some key sensitive areas of the port and combustion chamber versus any real hogging of aluminum....and of course a very **** assembly when I was finished (every valve height optimized, spring height optimized....details, details).

What was that worth....likely 8-10 RWHP or so....the new 230's are pretty kick azz right out of the box. Essentially I picked up the head about 5-7 CFM's or so and blueprinted the assembly....not alot but not an insignificant amount either.

And dont forget Im looking for more like 540 in Jeremy's F-Body....maybe more but there are just too many variables (ideally even in an F-Body I think this engine might be capable of slightly more than that). I just know I see very few F-Body's get close to the mid 500's at the tire with even aggressive LS2 or LS3 stroker engines, but I can speak from experience hypothetically installing that engine in the driveline of my C5.....that Ive done a couple of times going from Westech engine dyno to various chassis dyno's, not to mention my 383 seen in the comparison above has seen 535-545 RWHP on numerous dynos (not to mention ran 130 at the track), and its pretty obvious looking at the two curves this new engine kicks that one in the nutz......LOL

Now I did just remember the 83' was only tested with a 1.75 header, and I picked up about 8-10 with the switch to 1.875 when I tested that in the car (bringing my 535 RWHP closer to 545 at the tire), so technically the 383 would have put up 620 or so on the same engine dyno had I tested it with the larger header....but the torque output wouldn't have changed very much.....just carried a little better bringing in the extra ponies.

Honestly, I would be happy to see Jeremy's ride lay down 540+....if the drivability was good and the rest of the curve looked strong, any more would really be gravy IMO. He certainly has a good piece to work with.....let's see how dyno friendly his car actually is....as most of you know, being a hero on the chassis dyno requires alot more than even a stout engine combination....the right tune, induction, exhaust, clutch, etc. even tire and rim weight are all key components here (not to mention the larger variation seen more commonly in chassis dyno equipment) and I would rather head into it with a more realistic (but solid) expectation.



-Tony

WSsick

iTrader: (13)

Mamo molested?

Oh well, being a dyno hero is nice, but I'd take 540 if I ran a solid number at the track. I wish I wasnt a broke college student, otherwise Id have a set of these sitting on a big cube motor as well. Thats why we go to school though right, to fund this crazy hobby?

awd2rwd

iTrader: (17)

Willing to give the general specs on the cam/what the heads flowed?? very interested thanks

venom ws7

iTrader: (13)

V E R Y nice Tony !!!

allngn_c5

iTrader: (3)

Wow I've been gone awhile. Glad to check back and see this beast of a build. Nice work as always Tony !!!

Patrick G

iTrader: (14)

It's no secret. They're all outlined here: https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...-hit-dyno.html