Mike K.

9t9 we are not bashing at all. We are trying to save other people from getting screwed over. In your case I would say get your heads flowed by a shop other than JPR if you really want to be sure of what they flow, also get them cc'd. Believe me I am just as tired of this as you are. If you do get them flowed I would be very interested in hearing the results good or bad. Let us know what happens or feel free to email/pm me if you'd like. Email is Weltall@tampabay.rr.com

99 Black Bird T/A

iTrader: (4)

I got a very very small taste of what Mike & some of the others experienced. My reason for poking a little fun at the HDLV design in general at JPR specifically. I was a big fan of JPR until after I bought a set of JPR LS6 Stage 1's. If the JPR Stage 1 LS6 heads had been what was touted, I wouldn't have ended up sending them to TEA. That's another story and I don't want to side track Mike's thread. If you want details please feel free to PM me.

JS

iTrader: (4)

I know Joe talked real bad about me but I did the same about him too...I dont care about that and I truley do feel bad for the guy.I ended the friendship both personal and racing for reasons I wont go into now.

Again I wish him the best but...
IMO he got what he deserved,I hope he can crawl out of this mess but its gonna be hard.

I never said anything that wasnt true in terms of JPR that u guys already know and have found out the hard way.U can bet the house what he said about me is total BS..

Just ask Tommy M. via email about my honesty,integrity.We are friends and will remain friends and u wont find a more honest guy than Tommy M.

He will tell u I am a straight shooter...

Again Mike I understand your frustration..
I agree after thinking about it,Just handle this threw a lawyer if it makes u happy and let people know to steer clear of anyone who lies,cheats and bs people..

JS
My skin is thick

9T9BlueTA

iTrader: (2)

99 Black Bird T/A
First you link to TEA doesn't work . Second I am interested in what happened you can e-mail me at jim@uscc-llc.com if you want. My thing is a have been using Joe for awhile now, you actually recommened him to me JS way back when. I have thought about replacing the heads but I am sick of all the BS. This shop promises that and that shop promises this and then 2 months later it all begins to unravel that everybody is full of crap. If I have to pull the heads for some reason I have asked around if anybody is willing to look at them but most people just use CNC and they say they cant do anything. Then there is the possibility that I change the heads and I make the same power and then MORE excuses get thrown around, its you Cam or your headers, try a cutout or ewp. When I dyno the car I am expecting around 410 through my 12bolt with 4.11 gears. Joe told me he ran my car and gave me the slip:
60- 1.985
330- 5.212
1/8- 7.831
MPH. 93.77
990- 10.892
1/4- 11.989
MPH 119.56

I am happy with those numbers if I run the same so I dont want to go changing everything for minimal gains.

BADSS

iTrader: (7)

That setup should kick ***, Mike!

I am trying to figure out whose heads I want to go with next, I am really pretty satisfied with the rest of my combo. I just wish I hadn't wasted more money trying to have the JPR heads "fixed," but that was before alot of this information about his heads came out, and I still thought they would perform as advertised. I could have put that money towards a new set of heads.

Guys- who has the best LS1 heads, bar none? Taking price out of the equation?

I am considering: TEA, AS, Rapid, GTP. I would consider the AFR's if they prove to be better than stock ported castings.

BTW, I don't think we are "bashing" JPR at all- we are just telling the truth.

Sometimes, the truth hurts!

99 Black Bird T/A

iTrader: (4)

My link to TEA doesn't work

That will NEVER do. Thanks for the heads up and I'll fix it tonight.

I must have messed it up when tweaking my sig. BTW TEA has a new website, well worth checking out.

I'll email you...in a nut shell the heads were not up to my expections.

9T9BlueTA

iTrader: (2)

The only part thats confusing/frustrating is Mike you proved that your heads dont flow well and other people are on here to back that. That I can accept. My hard choice is do I want to go through the time, effort and money to get a different set of heads that perform the same? I need to get my car dynoed to see what its putting out. I have a smaller cam in right now (Smaller than the popular TSP 231/237) and if I put out the same numbers as this person here:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamometer-results-comparisons/151613-first-dyno-pp-5-7-stage-ii-tsp-231-237-cam.html without the ewp and with worse exhaust and cats I am out even more money for no gains.

Just to put an end to all of this I am almost at the point of pulling off the heads after getting dynoed having them flowed then getting a different set of heads, have them flowed and dyno again. If JPR heads dont flow well and the others do but it makes minimal difference what does that prove......That like I said in my first post in this thread no shops impress me. It's getting to hard to tell the BS from the real people in here. Most people are at around 400-410 HP with heads and cam and then theres the high hp cars with no track times. Others say this is junk and they are replacing things just to get the same numbers or disappear off the boards completely.

Somebody but an end to the madness .

Mike K.

9t9 I made my power through a big cam, high compression, and an agressive tune. If my heads actually flowed what was advertised I would have been able to run a small cam, less compression, and a smaller cam to acheive the same numbers. This is the point. We are not bsers, its just if the heads flowed what the were advertised to I could have run a safe setup and made the same power numbers. Just look at other big power examples. The TREX cam with stock heads puts out more power than my head/cam combo because its a big *** cam lol. Look at the old GTP 224 setups that made my power but a few years ago. The cam and compression on those setups was much less than mine but made the same power. Point is that there is the right/safe way to do it via the flow numbers and the wrong way to do it which is what happened in my case with the secret cam specs, higher compression, and agressive tune. We are not bsers, I hope this clears some things up for you.

9T9BlueTA

iTrader: (2)

Mike I understand that the compression and the tuning was a factor. Although I have not seen any improvment in power going above 30 degress of timing (30-33 no change in numbers). I remember the old GTP 224 setups, they were the ones that dropped off the forum or I just havent seen them lately. Now we have people with patriot heads running bigger cams with numbers around 400-410 and the heads are supposed to flow around 300cfm. I am going to call Joe later today and see what he says about bringing my car down there and pulling the heads and flowing them and seeing what cc they are at. Joe told me last time I talked to him that there was no way your heads were that cc because you would need shorther pushrods or you could tell just by the proload and how many turns it takes to put the rockers on or something (dont quote me on that).
I still dont know if my car has a bad head gasket or what yet so I have to get that straightned out first. I hope everybody understands that I just want to know how my car is setup and know that I got what I paid for. I cant afford for something drastic to go wrong since I am in the process of getting Married and buying a house, I want to keep the car but if I cant trust anybody about what is in my car....I just cant have that right now and hopefully Joe will not have an issue with doing this.

JS

iTrader: (4)

Listen JOE CAN PORT HEADS...
He just got in over his head,It happens guys....

I'm not saying all the things he did should be forgotten..
But no one will tell me he cant port,Its more like he didnt do some heads as well as there heads.

Believe me other shops have done this too.
ARE comes to mind,but hey fixed the problem

Hopefully Joe can too...

9T9BlueTA

iTrader: (2)

JS, which is why I will still go to him if I feel there is a problem with my heads. If things were rushed fine I will give him my car and have him remedy the problem. I have no problem with that and hopefully Joe wont either

99 Black Bird T/A

iTrader: (4)

I don't think anyone said he can't...more like in some cases he didn't. Two different things.

Anyone know of an independant flow test from a reputable shop that backs up the flow numbers JPR claimed for the 5.7 HVLD Stage 2 heads? If you can provide that data I would like to see the results.

Here's the flow data on the set of JPR LS6 S1's I had. For stock valves pretty good until you look at the flow thru the LS6 intake.

JPR LS6 S1
LS6 ----Int----LS6 Manifold---- LS6 Ex-no pipe
.100 -----62.2 -----61.7 -----------51.9
.200 ----138.5 ----135.7 ---------111.3
.300 ----199.6 ----187.9 ---------149.2
.400 ----239.7 ----222.0 ---------177.2
.500 ----272.4 ----234.7 ---------194.0
.550 ----284.4 ----239.7 ---------196.2
.600 ----269.7 ----241.5 ---------198.7

This is as much as 16 cfm less flow thru the intake than another set of heads I had tested. Absolute and TEA can go 280 to 290 cfm thru the LS6 intake with their LS6 heads! I expected the JPR's to go 260+ cfm thru the intake.


BTW JS

Did Joe slip a bigger cam into your early set up than he told you he was going to use?

I seem to recall hearing something about that. You were thinking you had a 218 when it was actually a 224 in the car?

Mike K.

9t9 regarding the cc size this was doube checked at two different shops and it was 60cc's. This was not done via milling however as we measured the heads vs stock heads and they were milled only .030 so the cc size came from the valve job which may be the reason I was able to get away with the 7.4 pushrod size. Im telling you everything I say was double checked by different shops and trust me I am being very skeptical. If you want to be safe get somebody besides JPR to flow those heads on both a 3.9 bore and the 4.1 bore. Ask Joe before hand what your heads should flow and on what bore size and get it in writing. Better safe than sorry.

9T9BlueTA

iTrader: (2)

Mike I wasnt doubting you I didnt know that the valve job could effect that. So now I know, if there is a problem with my heads maybe I can get away with having them do another valve job? Internal engine stuff is a mystery to me but I am trying to figure this stuff out.

Mike K.

Yeah think of it this way. If the valves are sticking down further in the chamber it will raise the cc's much in the same way that milling the heads would by make less space in the chamber. one is from the top and one is from the bottom.

JS

iTrader: (4)

Joe and I did the cam sneek together,We said it was 216-216 but it really was a 218-224
I wont let Joe take the hit for that one,It was my idea....

Damian

iTrader: (89)

JS, pull JPR's nuts off your chin dude.....seriously. Regardless if he can port heads when he "feels" like it, he's a shady person and a really shitty business man. Mike K. isn't posting this **** for his health, he's posting it because JPR fucked him in the *** and didn't even blow a kiss......

You need to mind your own business and quit sticking up for someone who especially thinks you are a laughing matter....


josh

99 Black Bird T/A

iTrader: (4)

Looks like Terry Burger was right all along.

JS

iTrader: (4)

I dont care what Joe thinks about me nor do I care about u,I was just saying MAYBE he could get things straightened out.

I wouldnt let him tune a fish

There is NO DENYING he is shady and thats what I tried to tell u guys...
Guess I was right all along but some of u knocked me to no end.

Shade tree,Yea I did it and I admitted it.
Terrys just as sneeky,he ran a balsa wood hatch

I dont wanna fight guys.
I wish u all the best....

VINCE

iTrader: (1)

All of this is unfortunate. Looking back at the entire scenario JPR had many chances to make things right. JPR knew the heads sucked when he sent them to Mike K. At any time JPR could have lied to Mike K. and said hey I have some new changes I would like to do to your heads and if you send them to me I will upgrade them for free. JPR had months to do this b4 talking us into coming to NJ. MONTHS!! Instead he tells Mike K. not to send the heads to ANYONE knowing full well the sucky heads would have been revealed if Mike K. had another shop install the heads or just look at them. JPR had plenty of opportunity to fix this situation b4 the heads were even installed, but JPR saw another opportunity to get more money out of his unsuspecting customer. JPR asked Mike K. to drive 1200 miles to NJ and get a magical cam, heads installed and a dyno tune. I personally feel like Mike K. got robbed. JPR smiled in our face and stole more of Mike K.'s money.

When Mike K. and I got his heads flowed for the second time. I listened to the flow #'s being called out at each lift and I just wanted to break something. I looked over at Mike K. and I actually thought he was going to break down like a little girl missing her Barbie. Just kidding. Mike K. did look sad though. Nothing good came out of our mouths about those heads for the rest of the evening.

I feel sorry for all who still have issues with JPR. I really feel sorry for those waiting on motors. JPR seems to not have any money. What does that mean? It means he has spent the money previously sent to him on whatever. Drugs maybe.

For those still waiting on motors.... Go find out what is going on. If you wait too long JPR will smoke your motors in his crack pipe.