231/237 too big???
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From: Kansas City, MO
Originally Posted by destroyerSS
LOL!!! not bashin ya DENZ but i was thinking the same thing when i read your responce 
Anyway back to the ? of 231/237 i had a tr224 then switched to a 231/237 and i love it!!! just get a good tune and you'll be very happy 
BTW DENZSS what size solid are you running
Anyway back to the ? of 231/237 i had a tr224 then switched to a 231/237 and i love it!!! just get a good tune and you'll be very happy BTW DENZSS what size solid are you running
Its in the upper 240s duration, mid 600s lift. Not huge for a solid, but not too small either. Its setting in a ~12:1 408 waiting for UPS to deliver my damn lifters. I did get a bit of good news today. My LSX showed up at the shop.
Last edited by DenzSS; Mar 26, 2004 at 09:38 PM.
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From: Kansas City, MO
Originally Posted by koolaid
I will probably see the track 1-2 Saturday nights per month. My car will be a street car.
IMO, a smaller duration cam is better choice for a primarily street car. There is a reason for the common wisdom relating to choosing 224 duration or under cams for street cars. It is a good middleground, providing good power, torque, and drivability.
Primarily, it is a matter of opinion, perspective, and tolerance for the pecularities of large duration camshafts.
Originally Posted by DenzSS
Its in the upper 240s duration, mid 600s lift. Not huge for a solid, but not too small either. Its setting in a ~12:1 408 waiting for UPS to deliver my damn lifters. I did get a bit of good news today. My LSX showed up at the shop.
sounds like you should have a sweet ride soon 
back to cam thoughts I'm not sure how this gets solved but with your 408 would your new cam be considered smaller or larger than a 231/237 in a 346 and what made you go the solid route. BTW waiting for parts SUCKS!!! 
Originally Posted by DenzSS
IMO, a smaller duration cam is better choice for a primarily street car. There is a reason for the common wisdom relating to choosing 224 duration or under cams for street cars. It is a good middleground, providing good power, torque, and drivability.
Primarily, it is a matter of opinion, perspective, and tolerance for the pecularities of large duration camshafts.
Primarily, it is a matter of opinion, perspective, and tolerance for the pecularities of large duration camshafts.
But ya gotta always love the LOPE 
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From: Denton, TX
Originally Posted by DenzSS
IMO, a smaller duration cam is better choice for a primarily street car. There is a reason for the common wisdom relating to choosing 224 duration or under cams for street cars. It is a good middleground, providing good power, torque, and drivability.
Primarily, it is a matter of opinion, perspective, and tolerance for the pecularities of large duration camshafts.
Primarily, it is a matter of opinion, perspective, and tolerance for the pecularities of large duration camshafts.
i picked up mine knowing my driving habits...i have less than a 2 mile trek to work every morning so thats not really an issue to me...it will see some track use though id say 1-2 times a month as well. The cam is also cheap which drives alot of people I was lucky enough to get mine REAL cheap because i bought a pkg deal from TSP. There probably are alot of cams out there that are plenty streetable and make almost as much power but this one works for me
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From: Denton, TX
Originally Posted by destroyerSS
But ya gotta always love the LOPE 
If I just wanted the lope, I'd go with the GM Hotcam.
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I would say it is smaller by comparison. Up by 64 c.i. and only .05 on cam lift, when the theory used to be 224 was big, hell look at the T-Rex ouch! Not to say bigger is better. I myself have run no better times with the 213/237 cam than I did with the TR 224 cam. But, oddly enough on the street I can pull my friend who always out ETs me at the track. Heads heads heads. Go smaller with stock heads, and maybe a reverse split if your not using juice.
You get a Z06 cam and pay shipping I will send you my TSP 231/237! No joke. You can easily live with it daily driver, but unless you want to race a lot, like I said, last year over 600 trips down the strip, then think about a smaller cam.
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From: Denton, TX
Like I said, it will be a street car. I don't plan on n2o, but I want to be able to get on the highway quick. You know? I know once I go with a cam, I will want bigger if I come across someone with a larger cam. So, why not start out larger?
I plan on going with a new cam, but thanks for the offer.
I know once I go with a cam, I will want bigger if I come across someone with a larger cam. So, why not start out larger?I plan on going with a new cam, but thanks for the offer.
cat3, when i put my 231/237 in we went racing that weekend and VS my TR224 i removed a tenth and added 1.5 MPH and this was all done with my original tune for my tr224 and a less flowing exhaust {times were compared to tr224 with my better exhaust}but it was tuned prior. So i was not even able to get the max out of the cam. CAT I'll shoot you a PM tonight or tomorrow
CAT I'll shoot you a PM tonight or tomorrow TECH Fanatic
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From: Kansas City, MO
with your 408 would your new cam be considered smaller or larger than a 231/237 in a 346
Both would be considered relatively large in my opinion. There are a lot of big blocks in the 450+ cubic inch range with cams the size of the TSP 231/237 that put out a tremendous amount of power.I'll agree that in a race car you want a peaky power curve and you design your drivetrain to keep you in that narrow band. You make a lot of power and keep it there.
On a street car, most folks don't want to run the gears or the drivetrain necessary to take advantage of highpeak power. So, they need a lot of average torque. That way they don't need to have the exactly correct drivetrain or the perfect gears to have a really fun and fast car. The larger duration cams delay the closing of the intake valve which causes a loss of cylinder pressure in the lower rpms. That loss decreases torque. The only way to offset that is to increase your compression ratio. For folks with stock heads, that isn't going to happen. They are stuck at about 10.1:1.
Higher rpm cylinder fill is going to be better and that really bumps up the HP. Looks great on the dyno, but really isn't that helpful unless your drivetrain and gears are there to keep you in the range where you are making all the extra power.
When you have a lot of average torque and horsepower, you can get away with being a not-so-great driver without the perfect setup. You're still fast and consistent.
To sum up this stupidly long post, that is why I advocate smaller duration cams for the average guy on the street. Easy to drive, make lots of torque, has few tuning or drivability issues, and are generally fun.
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From: Kansas City, MO
what made you go the solid route.
At this point, the valvetrain has been a PITA. Interesting stuff, but you have to do a lot of clearancing on the heads to get everything to work. 1.95 Jesels don't like to fit apparrently.
Regardless, it should be fun. It has been a good experience up to now.
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From: Denton, TX
Good post DenzSS. I agree with you about the statement about the 224 cams for average drivers. There are too many variables out here on the internet for numbers to have meaning when compared. One guy with a 231/237 and heads may run similar times as a person with a 224 cam. They are obviously different drivers, or in a different climate, or both. Track conditions? Reliability of the timing system used at the track? Dyno accuracy? There are just a ton of variables.
I think one reason why people go after the 231/237 is for the dyno numbers, and track results on stock and aftermarket heads. I know I am drawn towards the cam because of the track/dyno numbers it puts out, while also being tame with a tune.
I consider myself an intermediate driver. I'm not that great at launching at the track on my street tires, but I must give myself credit - I can drive on the street. I love to drive. I have a Jeep at home with a detroit locker in the rear - talk about having to change your driving style.
Anyhow, before I go off-topic, I plan on running the 231/237 on either stock or PP Stage II heads, stock 10 bolt, and street tires. I want a dependable car that is quick, and fun to drive. From what I have read on the internet about this cam, the results are generally good. However, I do agree with what you said about 224 cams for people who aren't willing to replace driveline components to get the max out of their motor setup.
I think one reason why people go after the 231/237 is for the dyno numbers, and track results on stock and aftermarket heads. I know I am drawn towards the cam because of the track/dyno numbers it puts out, while also being tame with a tune.
I consider myself an intermediate driver. I'm not that great at launching at the track on my street tires, but I must give myself credit - I can drive on the street. I love to drive. I have a Jeep at home with a detroit locker in the rear - talk about having to change your driving style.
Anyhow, before I go off-topic, I plan on running the 231/237 on either stock or PP Stage II heads, stock 10 bolt, and street tires. I want a dependable car that is quick, and fun to drive. From what I have read on the internet about this cam, the results are generally good. However, I do agree with what you said about 224 cams for people who aren't willing to replace driveline components to get the max out of their motor setup.
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From: Kansas City, MO
Originally Posted by CAT3
Do the Heads and You will be in love with the car all over again.
When you do eventually do heads, just don't mill them. The P to V is hairy anyway without valve reliefs.
