241's to ai for $500 or buy 243's
06-05-2012, 11:40 AM
#41
I see it brought up quite often that we use the GM parts when possible as if it were a cost cutting measure. Fact is, we use the GM valves because they are superior to most of the aftermarket valves for the typical HR street/strip applications - they're lighter, typically provide more available p2v, and are actually QC'd whereas most aftermarket valves are not. It does not make sense IMO to replace the $20+ OEM valve w/ a heavier aftermarket part.
I'd run the BTR .660 dual spring kit or the PSI beehive option in most applications. The PSI's are a high end spring, and they'll handle most any HR lobe you'd want to run in a street car. Retaining the OE retainer & lock is not a negative - like the valves they are consistent & lightweight. The only guys running the $500-600 Manley Nextek setups are generally those wanting to run high net lift, high rpm, aggressive lobes, etc.
Thanks Josh, I think one of the things that sets us apart is my willingness to try to optimize a setup for each individual, be it valve locations in the head, building the head w/ a specific cam in mind, customer requested spring installed heights, whatever components guys want (which takes time, since they all have to be checked), etc. We're a relatively small specialty shop, and our niche has always been high end machine work, attention to detail, and QC. We're not perfect, but those tendencies have gone a long way towards setting ourselves apart. In a competitive market, one has to do something to try to set themselves apart. 
Most of our customers are rather particular, which suits me just fine since I tend to obsess over everything.
That brings up a good point. Guys drive themselves crazy attempting to race incomparable data from different flow test setups, spend extra $ on aftermarket heads, etc. to build what they feel is the perfect theoretical setup, and often end up no better off than what good work on the GM head achieves because they don't get the setup assembled/tuned optimally. It takes an experienced and detail oriented builder/tuner to get cars/engines to run to potential. That added effort often more than offsets the theoretical 10-20hp advantage guys may feel an aftermarket head or particular cam may have. The #'s CSP and a couple other guys (Josh@SP, heintz, etc) put up w/ our GM head work illustrate that pretty well, like this one from yesterday: https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamomet...455-397-a.html
or this one w/ 243's from awhile back: https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamomet...476-409-a.html
Regarding the OP, the Performance Rebuild will pick up power w/ the 241's, and stock 243's will likely pick up similar #'s. You could also go the 243 route & have the PR work done to them, which would roughly double the gain, have fresh/new valvejobs & machining, be setup specifically for your cam/application, and show up ready to bolt on.
It all works; thanks for your interest!
-Phil
I'd run the BTR .660 dual spring kit or the PSI beehive option in most applications. The PSI's are a high end spring, and they'll handle most any HR lobe you'd want to run in a street car. Retaining the OE retainer & lock is not a negative - like the valves they are consistent & lightweight. The only guys running the $500-600 Manley Nextek setups are generally those wanting to run high net lift, high rpm, aggressive lobes, etc.
Just an FYI, I send 15-20 sets of heads to Advanced Induction every year. I'm well aware of their pricing structure and it's nowhere near that. Most GM castings I've been posting (with phenomenal results) cost around $1300 out the door. That's CNC'd, PSI 1511ML valve springs, and shipping to/from.
A.I. also treats each individual set of heads as such. Valve location, chamber size, spring height, etc....All of it is nailed down to the number per request. Anyone who builds engines for a living understands the importance of these small things, and that's why I continue to use A.I. opposed to some others that mass-produce a product to feed the masses.
A.I. also treats each individual set of heads as such. Valve location, chamber size, spring height, etc....All of it is nailed down to the number per request. Anyone who builds engines for a living understands the importance of these small things, and that's why I continue to use A.I. opposed to some others that mass-produce a product to feed the masses.
Most of our customers are rather particular, which suits me just fine since I tend to obsess over everything.
Back to the original post...I am a cylinder head porter by trade. I have been porting these heads since they came out. Take it from me the 241's, 853's 806's all will get the job done in ported form. Unless you are running a cam with much greater lifts than. 600" you are giving up nothing to the 243's.
or this one w/ 243's from awhile back: https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamomet...476-409-a.html
Regarding the OP, the Performance Rebuild will pick up power w/ the 241's, and stock 243's will likely pick up similar #'s. You could also go the 243 route & have the PR work done to them, which would roughly double the gain, have fresh/new valvejobs & machining, be setup specifically for your cam/application, and show up ready to bolt on.
It all works; thanks for your interest!
-Phil
Last edited by Advanced Induction; 06-05-2012 at 01:29 PM. Reason: links
06-05-2012, 02:24 PM
#42
okay from what I have learned 243s wont show increase in power until your c am starts getting over .600 lift and the 241s will pretty much match it. 243s will only be worth about 10 hp stock just bolting them on. for what you have i would stick w your 241s. JMO
06-06-2012, 11:32 AM
#44
I see it brought up quite often that we use the GM parts when possible as if it were a cost cutting measure. Fact is, we use the GM valves because they are superior to most of the aftermarket valves for the typical HR street/strip applications - they're lighter, typically provide more available p2v, and are actually QC'd whereas most aftermarket valves are not. It does not make sense IMO to replace the $20+ OEM valve w/ a heavier aftermarket part.
I'd run the BTR .660 dual spring kit or the PSI beehive option in most applications. The PSI's are a high end spring, and they'll handle most any HR lobe you'd want to run in a street car. Retaining the OE retainer & lock is not a negative - like the valves they are consistent & lightweight. The only guys running the $500-600 Manley Nextek setups are generally those wanting to run high net lift, high rpm, aggressive lobes, etc.
Thanks Josh, I think one of the things that sets us apart is my willingness to try to optimize a setup for each individual, be it valve locations in the head, building the head w/ a specific cam in mind, customer requested spring installed heights, whatever components guys want (which takes time, since they all have to be checked), etc. We're a relatively small specialty shop, and our niche has always been high end machine work, attention to detail, and QC. We're not perfect, but those tendencies have gone a long way towards setting ourselves apart. In a competitive market, one has to do something to try to set themselves apart.
Most of our customers are rather particular, which suits me just fine since I tend to obsess over everything.
That brings up a good point. Guys drive themselves crazy attempting to race incomparable data from different flow test setups, spend extra $ on aftermarket heads, etc. to build what they feel is the perfect theoretical setup, and often end up no better off than what good work on the GM head achieves because they don't get the setup assembled/tuned optimally. It takes an experienced and detail oriented builder/tuner to get cars/engines to run to potential. That added effort often more than offsets the theoretical 10-20hp advantage guys may feel an aftermarket head or particular cam may have. The #'s CSP and a couple other guys (Josh@SP, heintz, etc) put up w/ our GM head work illustrate that pretty well, like this one from yesterday: https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamomet...455-397-a.html
or this one w/ 243's from awhile back: https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamomet...476-409-a.html
Regarding the OP, the Performance Rebuild will pick up power w/ the 241's, and stock 243's will likely pick up similar #'s. You could also go the 243 route & have the PR work done to them, which would roughly double the gain, have fresh/new valvejobs & machining, be setup specifically for your cam/application, and show up ready to bolt on.
It all works; thanks for your interest!
-Phil
I'd run the BTR .660 dual spring kit or the PSI beehive option in most applications. The PSI's are a high end spring, and they'll handle most any HR lobe you'd want to run in a street car. Retaining the OE retainer & lock is not a negative - like the valves they are consistent & lightweight. The only guys running the $500-600 Manley Nextek setups are generally those wanting to run high net lift, high rpm, aggressive lobes, etc.
Thanks Josh, I think one of the things that sets us apart is my willingness to try to optimize a setup for each individual, be it valve locations in the head, building the head w/ a specific cam in mind, customer requested spring installed heights, whatever components guys want (which takes time, since they all have to be checked), etc. We're a relatively small specialty shop, and our niche has always been high end machine work, attention to detail, and QC. We're not perfect, but those tendencies have gone a long way towards setting ourselves apart. In a competitive market, one has to do something to try to set themselves apart.
Most of our customers are rather particular, which suits me just fine since I tend to obsess over everything.
That brings up a good point. Guys drive themselves crazy attempting to race incomparable data from different flow test setups, spend extra $ on aftermarket heads, etc. to build what they feel is the perfect theoretical setup, and often end up no better off than what good work on the GM head achieves because they don't get the setup assembled/tuned optimally. It takes an experienced and detail oriented builder/tuner to get cars/engines to run to potential. That added effort often more than offsets the theoretical 10-20hp advantage guys may feel an aftermarket head or particular cam may have. The #'s CSP and a couple other guys (Josh@SP, heintz, etc) put up w/ our GM head work illustrate that pretty well, like this one from yesterday: https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamomet...455-397-a.html
or this one w/ 243's from awhile back: https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamomet...476-409-a.html
Regarding the OP, the Performance Rebuild will pick up power w/ the 241's, and stock 243's will likely pick up similar #'s. You could also go the 243 route & have the PR work done to them, which would roughly double the gain, have fresh/new valvejobs & machining, be setup specifically for your cam/application, and show up ready to bolt on.
It all works; thanks for your interest!
-Phil
To put it simply they flat out know what they are doing compared to other vendors that push their mass produced slop work anybody that will settle with average gains to save a couple bucks on a part that will be on their car for years.
I am speaking from experience I have pulled PRC heads off my car only to replace them with AI heads, and I couldn't be happier. Much of which is attributed to characteristics that cannot be quantified on a dyno sheet or flow bench. They just work well.
06-06-2012, 12:07 PM
#45
TECH Senior Member
This post perfectly demonstrates why I bought my heads from AI.
I am speaking from experience I have pulled PRC heads off my car only to replace them with AI heads, and I couldn't be happier. Much of which is attributed to characteristics that cannot be quantified on a dyno sheet or flow bench. They just work well.
I am speaking from experience I have pulled PRC heads off my car only to replace them with AI heads, and I couldn't be happier. Much of which is attributed to characteristics that cannot be quantified on a dyno sheet or flow bench. They just work well.
06-06-2012, 04:11 PM
#46
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Although I'm not an AI customer just yet, the fantastic results I've seen from local guys, has sold me on them. When money allows, my 243's will be shipped out for the 226cc program.
Phil, After personally seeing Brad Ward's car make more power with your budget 5.3 head, than the high dollar MAST small bore rectangle port heads he had, all while increasing drive ability, I'm sold.
The "Details" are what sets people out front, and makes the nay-Sayers stand around kicking rocks while they're left behind.
AI may not produce the all-out best head, but they're the best bang for the buck, and are consistantly performing awesome, with relatively inexpensive pricing on quality work.
Phil, After personally seeing Brad Ward's car make more power with your budget 5.3 head, than the high dollar MAST small bore rectangle port heads he had, all while increasing drive ability, I'm sold.
The "Details" are what sets people out front, and makes the nay-Sayers stand around kicking rocks while they're left behind.
AI may not produce the all-out best head, but they're the best bang for the buck, and are consistantly performing awesome, with relatively inexpensive pricing on quality work.
