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Four Valve Heads Anyone?
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 11
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From: Southern CA
Four Valve Heads Anyone? Group,
I am considering going into production of 4 valve heads for the LS1.
Can any of you tell me your opinion of the potential popularity of 4 valve heads for this engine?
The current plan is to use a design similar to the Quad 4.
Any ideas, opionions, suggestions appriciated.
Best Regards
Jonathan Schmidt
SchmidtMotorWorks
jonathanschmidt@mail.com
I am considering going into production of 4 valve heads for the LS1.
Can any of you tell me your opinion of the potential popularity of 4 valve heads for this engine?
The current plan is to use a design similar to the Quad 4.
Any ideas, opionions, suggestions appriciated.
Best Regards
Jonathan Schmidt
SchmidtMotorWorks
jonathanschmidt@mail.com
i think it would be cool i have always thought it would be cool if someone came up with a rocker that would work two valves or make it work some how.
i think it would be a big step forward. i dont know much but from what i have heard a 4 valve head will be more efficient than a 2 with big valves.
i think it would be a big step forward. i dont know much but from what i have heard a 4 valve head will be more efficient than a 2 with big valves.
On The Tree
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 115
Likes: 0
Dominion Performance Inc. used to make 32-valve heads for the LT1, but the web site is gone and from what I hear they didn't get the gains they expected.
Arao Engineering currently makes 32-valve heads for older small blocks, and they have made impressive gains (203 hp over stock iron heads, and 159 hp more than "high end" aluminum heads). They are also (per the website) good for over 9,000 rpm revs with no exotic valve train parts or "freakish valve spring loadings".
http://www.araoengineering.com/Chevy/chevysmb.htm
They aren't cheap however (somewhere north of $5k if I remember right). If there was an affordable LS1 varient that could produce gains like that, I'm sure people would be lining up!
Arao Engineering currently makes 32-valve heads for older small blocks, and they have made impressive gains (203 hp over stock iron heads, and 159 hp more than "high end" aluminum heads). They are also (per the website) good for over 9,000 rpm revs with no exotic valve train parts or "freakish valve spring loadings".
http://www.araoengineering.com/Chevy/chevysmb.htm
They aren't cheap however (somewhere north of $5k if I remember right). If there was an affordable LS1 varient that could produce gains like that, I'm sure people would be lining up!
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You've got your work cut out for you. They will need to be much better than whats out now, easy to setup, and a good value not necessarily cheap. If you can do this, there may be a market for them. I personally would not be interested in 4V heads.
Bruce
Bruce
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I think that four valve heads would be great, as long as you came up with a killer intake for them as well. That is really the biggest holdback with the Gen 3's.
But, the advantages of a 4 valve head would be so incredibly great. As long as you made the port small to keep the torque around, they would be the best thing that could happen to these engines, IMO.
But, the advantages of a 4 valve head would be so incredibly great. As long as you made the port small to keep the torque around, they would be the best thing that could happen to these engines, IMO.
Launching!
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 271
Likes: 0
From: California
No more swapping cams as the price would now be x4. I come from a history of DOHCs and I can say they are far superior to pushrods... that being said, for a V8 I think it is impractical to have 32 valves, springs, retainers and pusrods and four cams... too expensive!
Four valve heads do not require a four cam DOHC set up. The prior 4 valve examples for SBC used a single cam. My guess is he's talking about something similar for the LS1.
As for basing on a Quad for head, those things are well known and hated for their tendancy to blow head gaskets. My wife has a 95 Granda Am and it blew one. That tendancy if present in your new 4-valve will doom it.
If AFR can get $2500 for their CNC'd LS1 head I would think you could get a similar amount. You'll have to beat every ported 2-valve head on the market with worth while gans everywhere. I think you'll have to have your head turn key to do all of that for $3,200 max and about $2,500 if you really want to sell a lot of them. Folks will have to switch to much smaller cams than what's popular now. The will be a hard mind set to break for some folks.
As for the big gains with 4-valve heads, a 2-valve can make the ~same peak numbers if optimised but the 2-valve will make less everywhere else.
As for basing on a Quad for head, those things are well known and hated for their tendancy to blow head gaskets. My wife has a 95 Granda Am and it blew one. That tendancy if present in your new 4-valve will doom it.
If AFR can get $2500 for their CNC'd LS1 head I would think you could get a similar amount. You'll have to beat every ported 2-valve head on the market with worth while gans everywhere. I think you'll have to have your head turn key to do all of that for $3,200 max and about $2,500 if you really want to sell a lot of them. Folks will have to switch to much smaller cams than what's popular now. The will be a hard mind set to break for some folks.
As for the big gains with 4-valve heads, a 2-valve can make the ~same peak numbers if optimised but the 2-valve will make less everywhere else.
You have to design it like stated above, easy for the user, outflow anything else on the market (AFR's) and then you would also need to make it a thick deck, like the AFR's, as the thinner deck has its tendancy to bow/cup under boost. And just what fun could a set of 32v heads be if there wasnt boost or assloads of nitrous in it?
Do all that, keep the price livable, and you got it.
Do all that, keep the price livable, and you got it.
Staging Lane
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 66
Likes: 0
From: Florida
Response
Originally Posted by schmidtmotorworks
Group,
I am considering going into production of 4 valve heads for the LS1.
Can any of you tell me your opinion of the potential popularity of 4 valve heads for this engine?
The current plan is to use a design similar to the Quad 4.
Any ideas, opionions, suggestions appriciated.
Best Regards
Jonathan Schmidt
SchmidtMotorWorks
jonathanschmidt@mail.com
I am considering going into production of 4 valve heads for the LS1.
Can any of you tell me your opinion of the potential popularity of 4 valve heads for this engine?
The current plan is to use a design similar to the Quad 4.
Any ideas, opionions, suggestions appriciated.
Best Regards
Jonathan Schmidt
SchmidtMotorWorks
jonathanschmidt@mail.com
Jon,
I think every previous post was excellent and informative.
If you consider all of the previous posts, especially about the head thickness for boosted applications, maintaining velocity for NA applications and pricing you would make a killing.
I have no doubts that this head would flow great numbers v.s. the 2 valve set-up.
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
From: Southern CA
Wow, it looks like I came to the right place. I will keep reading and post a proposed design that fits your input and then get your opinions. Thanks all, for your input, I really apprciate it.