LS1 Build Help!
10-06-2012, 03:21 AM
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LS1 Build Help! Hello all! I've been reading a bunch of threads the last couple of weeks, but am still unsure of what I want to/should do for a build, so I could use some help from the experienced, as this will be my first time doing anything other than bolt-ons. I could use some input from any of you on here from TSP or any other sponsors as well!
I live in Tucson, AZ and have a 99 Camaro SS M6 with 86k miles. The intake and exhaust mods I currently have (in sig.) will probably be ditched for better ones, aside from the SSRA I will be getting shortly. It isn't my daily driver, but it's not strictly a race car either. It will be raced from a dig and from rolls on the street and strip. I have no concern of retaining fuel economy, that's what my DD is for, so maximizing the performance gains is priority since I will be spending the money!
I'm wanting to keep a stock bottom end, but I want to get a good H/C/I combination. I have no idea what heads to get, but I know that they need to compliment the cam and other supporting mods. I'm not too well versed on head-work, but I have some buddies that could hook me up if that would be the best way to go. I want a cam with a nice, noticeable lope, but one that performs amazingly, and preferably one that doesn't have to be revved to the moon, with excellent under the curve power and torque that places me ahead of the competition. I'm not looking for peak power bragging rights, I'm looking for what wins races. I don't need to have the biggest everything, I've seen that having big H/C doesn't mean a smaller cam only car won't beat you. I want something with really high gains since I will be spending the money.
As far as the intake manifold and TB goes for what I'm wanting, from what I'm reading, an LS6 or something in the 92mm-96mm range would be best? I also read to use the 5-pin 85mm MAF sensor, which I already have, and that a Fast Toys 98mm lid would better suit the intake combo than my SLP lid. I will also be putting an SSRA intake on (Thanks Al aka ss1le02).
As far as exhaust goes, I will definitely be getting long tube headers. I am unsure of the necessity of the larger sized primary tubes at 1-7/8" as I have been reading mixed views as to whether they show any gains on a stock-cube LS1 over the 1-3/4" tubes. I am also considering the TSP Rumbler Bullet true dual setup as I hear it shows good gains compared to most y setups, but am open to using a good y setup with similar gains. Are there any aftermarket torque arms that move it off of the tail-shaft that will work with these true duals?
I know this doesn't all fall under the internal engine category, but I'm hoping the moderators bear with me, because I wanted to keep this all in one post since I do not know what H/C setup I'm going with and that affects what intake and exhaust I should go with. I'm a complete newb to heads and cam, so thank you in advance for any and all advice!
I live in Tucson, AZ and have a 99 Camaro SS M6 with 86k miles. The intake and exhaust mods I currently have (in sig.) will probably be ditched for better ones, aside from the SSRA I will be getting shortly. It isn't my daily driver, but it's not strictly a race car either. It will be raced from a dig and from rolls on the street and strip. I have no concern of retaining fuel economy, that's what my DD is for, so maximizing the performance gains is priority since I will be spending the money!
I'm wanting to keep a stock bottom end, but I want to get a good H/C/I combination. I have no idea what heads to get, but I know that they need to compliment the cam and other supporting mods. I'm not too well versed on head-work, but I have some buddies that could hook me up if that would be the best way to go. I want a cam with a nice, noticeable lope, but one that performs amazingly, and preferably one that doesn't have to be revved to the moon, with excellent under the curve power and torque that places me ahead of the competition. I'm not looking for peak power bragging rights, I'm looking for what wins races. I don't need to have the biggest everything, I've seen that having big H/C doesn't mean a smaller cam only car won't beat you. I want something with really high gains since I will be spending the money.
As far as the intake manifold and TB goes for what I'm wanting, from what I'm reading, an LS6 or something in the 92mm-96mm range would be best? I also read to use the 5-pin 85mm MAF sensor, which I already have, and that a Fast Toys 98mm lid would better suit the intake combo than my SLP lid. I will also be putting an SSRA intake on (Thanks Al aka ss1le02).
As far as exhaust goes, I will definitely be getting long tube headers. I am unsure of the necessity of the larger sized primary tubes at 1-7/8" as I have been reading mixed views as to whether they show any gains on a stock-cube LS1 over the 1-3/4" tubes. I am also considering the TSP Rumbler Bullet true dual setup as I hear it shows good gains compared to most y setups, but am open to using a good y setup with similar gains. Are there any aftermarket torque arms that move it off of the tail-shaft that will work with these true duals?
I know this doesn't all fall under the internal engine category, but I'm hoping the moderators bear with me, because I wanted to keep this all in one post since I do not know what H/C setup I'm going with and that affects what intake and exhaust I should go with. I'm a complete newb to heads and cam, so thank you in advance for any and all advice!
10-06-2012, 06:41 AM
#2
What is your budget? Top of the line heads are "mamofied" AFR or TEA ported Trickflows (TFS). Might as well go 1 7/8 headers, why not? I would go fast 102 if you can afford new rails and a tiny bit of customization. This path can run you $10k in a hurry, so budget is key. Buy the best heads you can afford and piece the rest together on what's left.
10-06-2012, 07:55 AM
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Figure out a budget first. Basically decide on an amount you are willing to spend and not a penny more. Then I would decide on a cam, next being heads to compliment the cam selection, and then decide what intake and exhaust will maximize your performance from there. Good luck!
10-06-2012, 06:44 PM
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I'm aiming for a budget around $5k, not including tuning. Labor will all be done by me and some friends that said they would help out. I think I was way too broad in my original posts, because I will not be buying everything all at ounce. I plan on starting with the intake and Cam for now, and heads may not be purchased for a while. I'm curious what would be a good, powerful cam that won't cause an issue with stock heads, and what size intake to go with? I don't think a FAST 102 will be optimal for what I'm wanting, and I'm not wanting to spend as much as one of those costs on a manifold. I was thinking something along the lines of an LS6 manifold or a PP Typhoon 85mm or 96mm manifold/TB combo.
10-06-2012, 08:15 PM
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im doing a H/C/I setup right now. im currently cam but this is the list of my items i using for the setup.
Intake Mainfold
Fast 102mmLSXR Intake Mainfold $807.00 Speed Engineering
Fast LSXR Fuel Rail Kit $229.00 WS6 Store
Nick Williams 102mm TB $338.50 WS6 Store
PRC LS6 Stage 2.5 CNC Heads $1,599 WS6 Store
APR Head Bolt Kit $146.90
LS6 Oil Pump $105.99
GM MLS Head Gaskets $37.99
Water Pump Gasket $6.99
APR Lube $7.99
Walbro 255LPh Fuel Pump $124.50
LSX Tuner $500.00
Prothane Motor Mounts $61.00
Intake Mainfold
Fast 102mmLSXR Intake Mainfold $807.00 Speed Engineering
Fast LSXR Fuel Rail Kit $229.00 WS6 Store
Nick Williams 102mm TB $338.50 WS6 Store
PRC LS6 Stage 2.5 CNC Heads $1,599 WS6 Store
APR Head Bolt Kit $146.90
LS6 Oil Pump $105.99
GM MLS Head Gaskets $37.99
Water Pump Gasket $6.99
APR Lube $7.99
Walbro 255LPh Fuel Pump $124.50
LSX Tuner $500.00
Prothane Motor Mounts $61.00
10-06-2012, 08:44 PM
#6
check out vengeance racing head/valve train combo .or look at the Texas Speed PRC cast 225 heads for $1700,or consider TSP PRC 5.3 heads for $1300.a fast 92mm intake for $809,use the stock ls1 fuel rail.get a 92mm TB for $330 or less.look at a TSP cam and push rods pkg for $475 to meet your power need .get a ls2 timing chain ,and a head/cam install kit for $250.the ws6 store sells a head/valve train combo for a good price.you will need injectors ,#36 or more from FIC.
10-07-2012, 03:01 AM
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Alright, I decided on neither the Typhoon or the LS6 manifolds, but just when I thought I had my mind made up on the FAST 92, I find out that the FAST 102 is cheaper than it! Should I just go with the 102/102? I know it will benefit me more with future mods, but will it hurt me anywhere in the powerband right now? I still need some help with a cam decision too...
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10-07-2012, 12:54 PM
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Alright, did some more reading and it looks like I will be going with the FAST 102 manifold and TB setup! As for the MAF and lid, do I need to go with something like the TSP 100mm MAF and 104mm lid, or would my SLP lid and 85mm MAF suffice? Still open to cam suggestions for what I'm wanting to do with the car!
10-07-2012, 01:32 PM
#10
Hello all! I've been reading a bunch of threads the last couple of weeks, but am still unsure of what I want to/should do for a build, so I could use some help from the experienced, as this will be my first time doing anything other than bolt-ons. I could use some input from any of you on here from TSP or any other sponsors as well!
I live in Tucson, AZ and have a 99 Camaro SS M6 with 86k miles. The intake and exhaust mods I currently have (in sig.) will probably be ditched for better ones, aside from the SSRA I will be getting shortly. It isn't my daily driver, but it's not strictly a race car either. It will be raced from a dig and from rolls on the street and strip. I have no concern of retaining fuel economy, that's what my DD is for, so maximizing the performance gains is priority since I will be spending the money!
I'm wanting to keep a stock bottom end, but I want to get a good H/C/I combination. I have no idea what heads to get, but I know that they need to compliment the cam and other supporting mods. I'm not too well versed on head-work, but I have some buddies that could hook me up if that would be the best way to go. I want a cam with a nice, noticeable lope, but one that performs amazingly, and preferably one that doesn't have to be revved to the moon, with excellent under the curve power and torque that places me ahead of the competition. I'm not looking for peak power bragging rights, I'm looking for what wins races. I don't need to have the biggest everything, I've seen that having big H/C doesn't mean a smaller cam only car won't beat you. I want something with really high gains since I will be spending the money.
A good cam compliments the heads you choose to use and the intake manifold. Not the other way around. The intake manifold and cylinder heads will be the factor that determines where your engine makes power and where the power curve will be.
As far as the intake manifold and TB goes for what I'm wanting, from what I'm reading, an LS6 or something in the 92mm-96mm range would be best? I also read to use the 5-pin 85mm MAF sensor, which I already have, and that a Fast Toys 98mm lid would better suit the intake combo than my SLP lid. I will also be putting an SSRA intake on (Thanks Al aka ss1le02).
I really like the Fast 92 for stock cube LS1 cars. I think it makes more power out of the box than a Fast 102 will. The 85mm MAF is a great choice as is the FTP 98mm lid.
As far as exhaust goes, I will definitely be getting long tube headers. I am unsure of the necessity of the larger sized primary tubes at 1-7/8" as I have been reading mixed views as to whether they show any gains on a stock-cube LS1 over the 1-3/4" tubes. I am also considering the TSP Rumbler Bullet true dual setup as I hear it shows good gains compared to most y setups, but am open to using a good y setup with similar gains. Are there any aftermarket torque arms that move it off of the tail-shaft that will work with these true duals?
Go with the 1x7/8" headers and don't look back. TSP did a head to head test and it showed that the larger primaries will not lose any power over the smaller primaries and only make more power past 4500rpm. The TSP true duals are an awesome exhaust that flows great and will make more power over a y-pipe. MWC makes a torque arm and mount for true duals, call Eric and he can get you squared away on that.
I know this doesn't all fall under the internal engine category, but I'm hoping the moderators bear with me, because I wanted to keep this all in one post since I do not know what H/C setup I'm going with and that affects what intake and exhaust I should go with. I'm a complete newb to heads and cam, so thank you in advance for any and all advice!
I live in Tucson, AZ and have a 99 Camaro SS M6 with 86k miles. The intake and exhaust mods I currently have (in sig.) will probably be ditched for better ones, aside from the SSRA I will be getting shortly. It isn't my daily driver, but it's not strictly a race car either. It will be raced from a dig and from rolls on the street and strip. I have no concern of retaining fuel economy, that's what my DD is for, so maximizing the performance gains is priority since I will be spending the money!
I'm wanting to keep a stock bottom end, but I want to get a good H/C/I combination. I have no idea what heads to get, but I know that they need to compliment the cam and other supporting mods. I'm not too well versed on head-work, but I have some buddies that could hook me up if that would be the best way to go. I want a cam with a nice, noticeable lope, but one that performs amazingly, and preferably one that doesn't have to be revved to the moon, with excellent under the curve power and torque that places me ahead of the competition. I'm not looking for peak power bragging rights, I'm looking for what wins races. I don't need to have the biggest everything, I've seen that having big H/C doesn't mean a smaller cam only car won't beat you. I want something with really high gains since I will be spending the money.
A good cam compliments the heads you choose to use and the intake manifold. Not the other way around. The intake manifold and cylinder heads will be the factor that determines where your engine makes power and where the power curve will be.
As far as the intake manifold and TB goes for what I'm wanting, from what I'm reading, an LS6 or something in the 92mm-96mm range would be best? I also read to use the 5-pin 85mm MAF sensor, which I already have, and that a Fast Toys 98mm lid would better suit the intake combo than my SLP lid. I will also be putting an SSRA intake on (Thanks Al aka ss1le02).
I really like the Fast 92 for stock cube LS1 cars. I think it makes more power out of the box than a Fast 102 will. The 85mm MAF is a great choice as is the FTP 98mm lid.
As far as exhaust goes, I will definitely be getting long tube headers. I am unsure of the necessity of the larger sized primary tubes at 1-7/8" as I have been reading mixed views as to whether they show any gains on a stock-cube LS1 over the 1-3/4" tubes. I am also considering the TSP Rumbler Bullet true dual setup as I hear it shows good gains compared to most y setups, but am open to using a good y setup with similar gains. Are there any aftermarket torque arms that move it off of the tail-shaft that will work with these true duals?
Go with the 1x7/8" headers and don't look back. TSP did a head to head test and it showed that the larger primaries will not lose any power over the smaller primaries and only make more power past 4500rpm. The TSP true duals are an awesome exhaust that flows great and will make more power over a y-pipe. MWC makes a torque arm and mount for true duals, call Eric and he can get you squared away on that.
I know this doesn't all fall under the internal engine category, but I'm hoping the moderators bear with me, because I wanted to keep this all in one post since I do not know what H/C setup I'm going with and that affects what intake and exhaust I should go with. I'm a complete newb to heads and cam, so thank you in advance for any and all advice!
10-09-2012, 02:12 AM
#11
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im doing a H/C/I setup right now. im currently cam but this is the list of my items i using for the setup.
Intake Mainfold
Fast 102mmLSXR Intake Mainfold $807.00 Speed Engineering
Fast LSXR Fuel Rail Kit $229.00 WS6 Store
Nick Williams 102mm TB $338.50 WS6 Store
PRC LS6 Stage 2.5 CNC Heads $1,599 WS6 Store
APR Head Bolt Kit $146.90
LS6 Oil Pump $105.99
GM MLS Head Gaskets $37.99
Water Pump Gasket $6.99
APR Lube $7.99
Walbro 255LPh Fuel Pump $124.50
LSX Tuner $500.00
Prothane Motor Mounts $61.00
Intake Mainfold
Fast 102mmLSXR Intake Mainfold $807.00 Speed Engineering
Fast LSXR Fuel Rail Kit $229.00 WS6 Store
Nick Williams 102mm TB $338.50 WS6 Store
PRC LS6 Stage 2.5 CNC Heads $1,599 WS6 Store
APR Head Bolt Kit $146.90
LS6 Oil Pump $105.99
GM MLS Head Gaskets $37.99
Water Pump Gasket $6.99
APR Lube $7.99
Walbro 255LPh Fuel Pump $124.50
LSX Tuner $500.00
Prothane Motor Mounts $61.00
check out vengeance racing head/valve train combo .or look at the Texas Speed PRC cast 225 heads for $1700,or consider TSP PRC 5.3 heads for $1300.a fast 92mm intake for $809,use the stock ls1 fuel rail.get a 92mm TB for $330 or less.look at a TSP cam and push rods pkg for $475 to meet your power need .get a ls2 timing chain ,and a head/cam install kit for $250.the ws6 store sells a head/valve train combo for a good price.you will need injectors ,#36 or more from FIC.
I responded to your points in red. I think a set of TEA ported or AI ported stock castings would be your best option or a set of AFR or TFS heads if you could swing them. Either will be close in power production, but the TFS will allow a little larger camshaft with their 13.5" valve angle or a higher dynamic compression with the same cam you'd be constrained to with the stock castings.
I definitely am going to go with 1-7/8" headers and the TSP true duals with the MWC crossmember though!
I've read a lot of Tony Mamo @ AFR posts and I'm leaning towards going with the FAST 102 due to the increased hp and tq I've seen on dyno graphs and to have the potential for even better flow when I do go with some heads. Martin, can I take you up on Tick's low price promise with the 102?
Will the 85mm MAF and current SLP lid restrict the 102 intake+TB combo? If I can get away with just using those, possibly buying just the lid, that would be great.I will definitely keep these heads you listed in mind when it comes time to buy, I haven't heard anything but good since I started looking into them!
So since I will not be buying heads for a while, I am okay with buying a cam package that works decently with stock heads for the time being. How does the TSP tsunami do among others when paired with stock heads? I know it's performance won't be fully utilized, just want something decent for the time being.
10-09-2012, 04:43 PM
#12
Thanks for the heads up, I haven't seen a 102 priced better anywhere else!
I looked at all of these, but won't be getting heads for now. However, I am considering the TSP tsunami cam package.
I told you I was a newb with heads and cam, lol! Unfortunately my budget constraint is a little lower than I previously thought, so I will be holding off on the heads for now.
I definitely am going to go with 1-7/8" headers and the TSP true duals with the MWC crossmember though!
I've read a lot of Tony Mamo @ AFR posts and I'm leaning towards going with the FAST 102 due to the increased hp and tq I've seen on dyno graphs and to have the potential for even better flow when I do go with some heads. Martin, can I take you up on Tick's low price promise with the 102? Will the 85mm MAF and current SLP lid restrict the 102 intake+TB combo? If I can get away with just using those, possibly buying just the lid, that would be great.
I will definitely keep these heads you listed in mind when it comes time to buy, I haven't heard anything but good since I started looking into them!
So since I will not be buying heads for a while, I am okay with buying a cam package that works decently with stock heads for the time being. How does the TSP tsunami do among others when paired with stock heads? I know it's performance won't be fully utilized, just want something decent for the time being.
I looked at all of these, but won't be getting heads for now. However, I am considering the TSP tsunami cam package.
I told you I was a newb with heads and cam, lol! Unfortunately my budget constraint is a little lower than I previously thought, so I will be holding off on the heads for now.
I definitely am going to go with 1-7/8" headers and the TSP true duals with the MWC crossmember though!
I've read a lot of Tony Mamo @ AFR posts and I'm leaning towards going with the FAST 102 due to the increased hp and tq I've seen on dyno graphs and to have the potential for even better flow when I do go with some heads. Martin, can I take you up on Tick's low price promise with the 102?
Will the 85mm MAF and current SLP lid restrict the 102 intake+TB combo? If I can get away with just using those, possibly buying just the lid, that would be great.I will definitely keep these heads you listed in mind when it comes time to buy, I haven't heard anything but good since I started looking into them!
So since I will not be buying heads for a while, I am okay with buying a cam package that works decently with stock heads for the time being. How does the TSP tsunami do among others when paired with stock heads? I know it's performance won't be fully utilized, just want something decent for the time being.
I think you would really like both of my stage two Street Heat Camshafts:
http://www.tickperformance.com/tick-...r-ls2-engines/
http://www.tickperformance.com/tick-...1-ls6-engines/
I think the slightly smaller 231/238 113+3 would work very nice with your stock heads and even better with a set of ported heads down the road.
The larger 234/240 113+4 would work better with the stock heads, but with the ported heads I'd want the slightly smaller profile due to their higher efficiency and larger intake runners they won't need as much duration.
10-13-2012, 02:27 AM
#13
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Sorry it's taking a while to write back, been crazy busy with work. Tomorrow will be my 10th consecutive day with all 12 hour shifts except for one 9 hour shift!
Got a smoking deal on a FAST 102 manifold for $650, so I won't be taking you up on the low price promise for that item, but possibly will with some other items! I decided to stick with the 5-pin MAF I have, but I'm going to swap my SLP lid with a FTP 98mm one.
I like the powerband of the second cam you recommended. I'm not overly fond of shifting TOO high on stock components, which makes that one a good choice. Plus, I can always upgrade when I do get a pair of heads. I don't mind the price of a cam considering intake manifolds cost more, lol. I didn't see any on the Tick page, but do you have any dyno sheets or video clips of the second cam you listed? Your camshaft package price is more appealing than the competition!
Are there going to be any black Friday/cyber Monday deals on Tick camshaft packages?
Got a smoking deal on a FAST 102 manifold for $650, so I won't be taking you up on the low price promise for that item, but possibly will with some other items! I decided to stick with the 5-pin MAF I have, but I'm going to swap my SLP lid with a FTP 98mm one.
I like the powerband of the second cam you recommended. I'm not overly fond of shifting TOO high on stock components, which makes that one a good choice. Plus, I can always upgrade when I do get a pair of heads. I don't mind the price of a cam considering intake manifolds cost more, lol. I didn't see any on the Tick page, but do you have any dyno sheets or video clips of the second cam you listed? Your camshaft package price is more appealing than the competition!
Are there going to be any black Friday/cyber Monday deals on Tick camshaft packages?
10-13-2012, 09:25 PM
#14
Sorry it's taking a while to write back, been crazy busy with work. Tomorrow will be my 10th consecutive day with all 12 hour shifts except for one 9 hour shift!
Got a smoking deal on a FAST 102 manifold for $650, so I won't be taking you up on the low price promise for that item, but possibly will with some other items! I decided to stick with the 5-pin MAF I have, but I'm going to swap my SLP lid with a FTP 98mm one.
I like the powerband of the second cam you recommended. I'm not overly fond of shifting TOO high on stock components, which makes that one a good choice. Plus, I can always upgrade when I do get a pair of heads. I don't mind the price of a cam considering intake manifolds cost more, lol. I didn't see any on the Tick page, but do you have any dyno sheets or video clips of the second cam you listed? Your camshaft package price is more appealing than the competition!
Are there going to be any black Friday/cyber Monday deals on Tick camshaft packages?
Got a smoking deal on a FAST 102 manifold for $650, so I won't be taking you up on the low price promise for that item, but possibly will with some other items! I decided to stick with the 5-pin MAF I have, but I'm going to swap my SLP lid with a FTP 98mm one.
I like the powerband of the second cam you recommended. I'm not overly fond of shifting TOO high on stock components, which makes that one a good choice. Plus, I can always upgrade when I do get a pair of heads. I don't mind the price of a cam considering intake manifolds cost more, lol. I didn't see any on the Tick page, but do you have any dyno sheets or video clips of the second cam you listed? Your camshaft package price is more appealing than the competition!
Are there going to be any black Friday/cyber Monday deals on Tick camshaft packages?
