Thoughts on EPS cams?
10-08-2012, 07:45 PM
#22
234/239 lxl/huc cam is WAY different than a 236/248 eps lobed cam in the link I posted. If you want to do any amount of driving like you state the EPS cam is entirely too big, unless you want to drive around in 5th all day, it WILL surge unless you spend big money getting it tuned in
the cam martin listed in that thread is what I would switch to if i drove my car more than a couple times a week. And like I said, no way I would DD my own car without the massive compression I have, it still drives like **** up to 1800rpm the way it is bucking with the converter locked
the cam martin listed in that thread is what I would switch to if i drove my car more than a couple times a week. And like I said, no way I would DD my own car without the massive compression I have, it still drives like **** up to 1800rpm the way it is bucking with the converter locked
10-08-2012, 07:47 PM
#23
You never answered if you were going to be doing gears.
I run a 240/244 cam on the street, drives good with 11.5:1 compression. 4.10 gears made a night and day difference. It drove like **** with the 3.42.
Here is the kicker though. I wouldn't have picked a cam this large if I would have changed the cam, something like the EPS 214/232 would be better for you I think since your not trying to milk ever last drop out of your set-up. You having the heads milled any? What is your desired compression ratio?
My cam was already installed in the long block I was getting, if I would have been picking a cam it would not have been this big, I don't mind it thought since it is a nice weather car.
Edit: looks like you posted that stuff while I was typing
I run a 240/244 cam on the street, drives good with 11.5:1 compression. 4.10 gears made a night and day difference. It drove like **** with the 3.42.
Here is the kicker though. I wouldn't have picked a cam this large if I would have changed the cam, something like the EPS 214/232 would be better for you I think since your not trying to milk ever last drop out of your set-up. You having the heads milled any? What is your desired compression ratio?
My cam was already installed in the long block I was getting, if I would have been picking a cam it would not have been this big, I don't mind it thought since it is a nice weather car.
Edit: looks like you posted that stuff while I was typing
10-08-2012, 07:54 PM
#24
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This is a over simplification of everything but if you were to run a 243 head done by a well known CNC program and through a 234/238 around .610 lift or so with 11.1 CR it will with a good tune make great power be driveable and run perfect on pump gas. I would however at least throw some 3.90 gears in there.
10-08-2012, 07:57 PM
#25
OP look at my sig and my setup is no where near radical. Also this thread may be of some help to you. Pay attention to my post in that thread.
Disclaimer: I am by no means an expert just giving my opinion and giving my personal experience.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...veability.html
Disclaimer: I am by no means an expert just giving my opinion and giving my personal experience.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...veability.html
10-08-2012, 07:59 PM
#26
234/239 lxl/huc cam is WAY different than a 236/248 eps lobed cam in the link I posted. If you want to do any amount of driving like you state the EPS cam is entirely too big, unless you want to drive around in 5th all day, it WILL surge unless you spend big money getting it tuned in
the cam martin listed in that thread is what I would switch to if i drove my car more than a couple times a week. And like I said, no way I would DD my own car without the massive compression I have, it still drives like **** up to 1800rpm the way it is bucking with the converter locked
the cam martin listed in that thread is what I would switch to if i drove my car more than a couple times a week. And like I said, no way I would DD my own car without the massive compression I have, it still drives like **** up to 1800rpm the way it is bucking with the converter locked
10-08-2012, 08:02 PM
#27
if you call up martin he would be able to suggest the rest, what you have listed is good but IMHO the TFS heads are a little better than the TSP heads. Always cheaper to buy everything from one spot and save on shipping or get a package deal. You could run pretty much any head if you have the 241's yet send them to AI for their high compression cnc package even and save some money, those are great heads for the $$
10-08-2012, 08:06 PM
#28
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Thanks for the compliment. I made really close to 450rwhp on motor. Actual motor numbers were 445rwhp and it made over 500rwhp on the spray.
10-08-2012, 08:06 PM
#29
Static compression is basically juse the volume in side the cylinder available. Your dynamic compression is the compression made once the valves are close.
That cam I listed was just the smallish one listed on EPS's website.
I personally, when I was planning my H/c build before I bought my longblock was looking at the VRX4 cam from Vengance racing, it is 228/230 .588/.592 XER.
You will make good power with that compression, and a street cam will give you great usable power. Gears will also make the car feel alot more natural, 3.90 and 4.10 are pretty much the go-to gear for the t-56 guys.
10-08-2012, 08:26 PM
#33
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A great engine builder I know said "that you could have the best cam in the world with a set of cookie cutter heads and not make good power. If you have a good cam with a great set of heads it will make HUGE power.
10-08-2012, 08:30 PM
#35
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You are on the right track OP. I never claimed to be an expert but Martin is and there are some experts on this site also. I did my fair share of brain picking when I was deciding what parts to buy. Just be honest to yourself and whatever expert you ask about your wants/goals then you will be happy. I'd hate to spend all that money on parts then not be happy with the end result.
10-09-2012, 08:39 AM
#38
Thanks for all the compliments guys.
OP that 234/239 112+3 cam was a great cam for Bwolf's valve-train he had to work with.
He was using TFS heads and aftermarket roller rockers which greatly increase the weight of the valve-train and care must be taken with lobe selection to not upset their stability.
I would have a valve job performed on the stock valves and use them. Most of those aftermarket 2.04 intake valves are around 100-110g where as the stock valves are 90ish and sodium filled 243 intake valves are 78-80g...HUGE difference. Stock rockers are the lightest rockers available for LSx engines.
All that said we can use a slightly more aggressive lobe selection with your set-up to gain some torque in the low speed and mid-range areas.
I would do something like my Stage 2 Street Heat cam from our Elite Series of camshafts. http://www.tickperformance.com/tick-...1-ls6-engines/
Or if you really like Bwolf's profile I have this cam also: http://www.tickperformance.com/tick-...r-ls2-engines/
We could also do something custom like 235/240 .621"/.588" 113+3.
If you wanted to focus a little more torque down low and shift the top end of the torque curve back into the meat of the power band, we could do something custom and take some exhaust duration off that profile and tighten the lobe separation up to a 112+3. It would look like 231/236 .617"/.578" 112+3 or we could still hang a little more torque out in that area and sharpen the torque curve by taking the lobe separation from 113+3 to 112+3. Shortening the exhaust duration and tightening lsa have similar effects, but not identical as you're also removing overlap when you remove exhaust duration.
All of the profiles I just mentioned have slightly different characteristics and different power curves with different peaks and average numbers.
OP that 234/239 112+3 cam was a great cam for Bwolf's valve-train he had to work with.
He was using TFS heads and aftermarket roller rockers which greatly increase the weight of the valve-train and care must be taken with lobe selection to not upset their stability.
I would have a valve job performed on the stock valves and use them. Most of those aftermarket 2.04 intake valves are around 100-110g where as the stock valves are 90ish and sodium filled 243 intake valves are 78-80g...HUGE difference. Stock rockers are the lightest rockers available for LSx engines.
All that said we can use a slightly more aggressive lobe selection with your set-up to gain some torque in the low speed and mid-range areas.
I would do something like my Stage 2 Street Heat cam from our Elite Series of camshafts. http://www.tickperformance.com/tick-...1-ls6-engines/
Or if you really like Bwolf's profile I have this cam also: http://www.tickperformance.com/tick-...r-ls2-engines/
We could also do something custom like 235/240 .621"/.588" 113+3.
If you wanted to focus a little more torque down low and shift the top end of the torque curve back into the meat of the power band, we could do something custom and take some exhaust duration off that profile and tighten the lobe separation up to a 112+3. It would look like 231/236 .617"/.578" 112+3 or we could still hang a little more torque out in that area and sharpen the torque curve by taking the lobe separation from 113+3 to 112+3. Shortening the exhaust duration and tightening lsa have similar effects, but not identical as you're also removing overlap when you remove exhaust duration.
All of the profiles I just mentioned have slightly different characteristics and different power curves with different peaks and average numbers.
10-09-2012, 09:32 AM
#39
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I also vote smaller cam. I bought my car with the thunder racing raptr cam 236/242 - .615/.615 - 111 lsa then added the 220cc trickflow heads milled a bit and the best it made was 429/387 with no low end power at all. I then talked to ron at vengeance and he told me to go with the vrx5 236/238 .601/.605 113 LSA and it made 456/404 with better drivability and alot more power down low. All his was thru 3.42s and a stock ls6 intake. Just my experience with a larger cam to smaller.
10-09-2012, 04:13 PM
#40
Thanks for all the compliments guys.
OP that 234/239 112+3 cam was a great cam for Bwolf's valve-train he had to work with.
He was using TFS heads and aftermarket roller rockers which greatly increase the weight of the valve-train and care must be taken with lobe selection to not upset their stability.
I would have a valve job performed on the stock valves and use them. Most of those aftermarket 2.04 intake valves are around 100-110g where as the stock valves are 90ish and sodium filled 243 intake valves are 78-80g...HUGE difference. Stock rockers are the lightest rockers available for LSx engines.
All that said we can use a slightly more aggressive lobe selection with your set-up to gain some torque in the low speed and mid-range areas.
I would do something like my Stage 2 Street Heat cam from our Elite Series of camshafts. http://www.tickperformance.com/tick-...1-ls6-engines/
Or if you really like Bwolf's profile I have this cam also: http://www.tickperformance.com/tick-...r-ls2-engines/
We could also do something custom like 235/240 .621"/.588" 113+3.
If you wanted to focus a little more torque down low and shift the top end of the torque curve back into the meat of the power band, we could do something custom and take some exhaust duration off that profile and tighten the lobe separation up to a 112+3. It would look like 231/236 .617"/.578" 112+3 or we could still hang a little more torque out in that area and sharpen the torque curve by taking the lobe separation from 113+3 to 112+3. Shortening the exhaust duration and tightening lsa have similar effects, but not identical as you're also removing overlap when you remove exhaust duration.
All of the profiles I just mentioned have slightly different characteristics and different power curves with different peaks and average numbers.
OP that 234/239 112+3 cam was a great cam for Bwolf's valve-train he had to work with.
He was using TFS heads and aftermarket roller rockers which greatly increase the weight of the valve-train and care must be taken with lobe selection to not upset their stability.
I would have a valve job performed on the stock valves and use them. Most of those aftermarket 2.04 intake valves are around 100-110g where as the stock valves are 90ish and sodium filled 243 intake valves are 78-80g...HUGE difference. Stock rockers are the lightest rockers available for LSx engines.
All that said we can use a slightly more aggressive lobe selection with your set-up to gain some torque in the low speed and mid-range areas.
I would do something like my Stage 2 Street Heat cam from our Elite Series of camshafts. http://www.tickperformance.com/tick-...1-ls6-engines/
Or if you really like Bwolf's profile I have this cam also: http://www.tickperformance.com/tick-...r-ls2-engines/
We could also do something custom like 235/240 .621"/.588" 113+3.
If you wanted to focus a little more torque down low and shift the top end of the torque curve back into the meat of the power band, we could do something custom and take some exhaust duration off that profile and tighten the lobe separation up to a 112+3. It would look like 231/236 .617"/.578" 112+3 or we could still hang a little more torque out in that area and sharpen the torque curve by taking the lobe separation from 113+3 to 112+3. Shortening the exhaust duration and tightening lsa have similar effects, but not identical as you're also removing overlap when you remove exhaust duration.
All of the profiles I just mentioned have slightly different characteristics and different power curves with different peaks and average numbers.
This might also sound.. noobish, but what effect does LSA have on power and power bands? and drivability?