799 versus TSP stage 1 heads
12-31-2012, 05:16 PM
#61
You presume an aweful lot. You also seem to be combative. I am not sure why. I see a lot of quibbling on tech. That is unfortunate.
Whenever I discuss things of this nature, I try to use language that indicates whether I am speculating, quoting info read elswhere, or sharing actual personal exprience. To me, this is really important to the quality of the discussion and the value of the tech community.
When people state their speculation as fact without any data to support it, it helps noone and degrades the quality of good information on tech.
Throw in the ego driven pissing contest and it becomes a very undesirable place to share information and ideas.
That is all I will have to say on this unfortunate distraction to this thread.
Sorry OP.
Again, I chose the CNC ported LS6 castings and I am very happy with the choice.
Whenever I discuss things of this nature, I try to use language that indicates whether I am speculating, quoting info read elswhere, or sharing actual personal exprience. To me, this is really important to the quality of the discussion and the value of the tech community.
When people state their speculation as fact without any data to support it, it helps noone and degrades the quality of good information on tech.
Throw in the ego driven pissing contest and it becomes a very undesirable place to share information and ideas.
That is all I will have to say on this unfortunate distraction to this thread.
Sorry OP.
Again, I chose the CNC ported LS6 castings and I am very happy with the choice.
01-01-2013, 04:00 PM
#63
I'm not in this thread to "bench race", as you put it. I'm here to make sure that when people are comparing our products to others that they have their facts straight. We also stay involved as much as possible on the boards that we sponsor because there are a lot of questions that can be answered. Why wouldn't we be in this thread? The title of the thread specifically asks about our products! That's why we sponsor the message boards. We are obviously a business that sells parts, and we want to help however we can. Every one of our salesmen have wrenched on their own LSx engine, so they are well-versed in how things work. They're not your typical sales guy that reads product information out of a catalog, not knowing what it means. I completely agree that flow numbers aren't everything. However, acting like they don't matter at all is a bit much. Our stock-valved stage 1.0 LS6 heads work very well. I said in a previous post that the gain in power going to the 2.02"/1.57" valves isn't a huge one, but it still gains power...period. It's up to the customer if it is worth it or not for the added cost.
As for Patriot and Terry Wilkes, what are you talking about? We do all of our CNC machining in-house. NONE of our products use anything from Patriot Performance. We have not dealt with them since 2004. Do you really think a business would let an employee walk out of their building with port information??? Every single port for ALL of the PRC cylinder heads were developed, not copied. We are more than capable of developing our own ports, and we do. Terry Wilkes is not an owner or employee of PRC or Texas Speed. It sounds like you're being fed more mis-information to take the focus off of the original topic. Terry can't answer questions about PRC port information because he doesn't have any of our port information! I can't give you specifics on ports from Patriot, Trick Flow, AFR, or any other cylinder head company because we don't have their specific port data. Just the same, they don't have our data. Furthermore, we started offering our current 227cc port in our LS6 heads in 2007. So, do you think we stole a design and then kept it under wraps for three years?
Terry doesn't answer for Texas Speed & Performance or Precision Race Components because he doesn't represent either company, nor do we answer for his business. If you would like information on our products, you should actually give us a call or contact us instead of posting mis-information. Not too sure where your hatred for TSP/PRC comes from, but trying to pull up rumors from nine years ago is a reach, at best.
Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion, and that's great! There are multiple manufacturers for most products, so the consumer has choices. We simply want current and potential customers to be educated when they are looking at our products. There are many excellent choices, which benefits every single consumer! Competition is a good thing for everyone, and we want to make sure that customers base their decision on solid information. Regardless of whether you purchase our products or not, we appreciate the consideration and want consumers to make their decision either way based on solid information.
Trevor
Texas Speed & Performance
As for Patriot and Terry Wilkes, what are you talking about? We do all of our CNC machining in-house. NONE of our products use anything from Patriot Performance. We have not dealt with them since 2004. Do you really think a business would let an employee walk out of their building with port information??? Every single port for ALL of the PRC cylinder heads were developed, not copied. We are more than capable of developing our own ports, and we do. Terry Wilkes is not an owner or employee of PRC or Texas Speed. It sounds like you're being fed more mis-information to take the focus off of the original topic. Terry can't answer questions about PRC port information because he doesn't have any of our port information! I can't give you specifics on ports from Patriot, Trick Flow, AFR, or any other cylinder head company because we don't have their specific port data. Just the same, they don't have our data. Furthermore, we started offering our current 227cc port in our LS6 heads in 2007. So, do you think we stole a design and then kept it under wraps for three years?
Terry doesn't answer for Texas Speed & Performance or Precision Race Components because he doesn't represent either company, nor do we answer for his business. If you would like information on our products, you should actually give us a call or contact us instead of posting mis-information. Not too sure where your hatred for TSP/PRC comes from, but trying to pull up rumors from nine years ago is a reach, at best.Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion, and that's great! There are multiple manufacturers for most products, so the consumer has choices. We simply want current and potential customers to be educated when they are looking at our products. There are many excellent choices, which benefits every single consumer! Competition is a good thing for everyone, and we want to make sure that customers base their decision on solid information. Regardless of whether you purchase our products or not, we appreciate the consideration and want consumers to make their decision either way based on solid information.
Trevor
Texas Speed & Performance
Who cares about flow numbers? At best, it's a generalized gray area for ball parking figures, even if the two different benches were set up properly and the exact same methods were used. Larger valves don't always help except when looking at bench numbers. While I understand TSP's eagerness to grow their business and enlarge their customer base, the fact that every time something is posted one of you guys comes on to post and negate the differences, whether in your favor or not just turns many off. I don't see Phil, or most of the other major players for that matter, on here bench racing every time someone asks such a basic question when a search function would suffice. The point is why go to a larger valve when you maintain a higher velocity, decreased shrouding, and routinely make the same or more power than the competitors head? You can't definitively say your comparable head will make more power, so power/$ isn't really known. How long has Terry Wilkes been doing TSP's heads, 2004 was when he left Patriot Performance and when you guys started "machining and building LS-based cylinder heads" so I don't think it was a coincidence. The same people who would claim Patriot's heads were junk would purchase TSP's heads and claim they're awesome, yet they both came from the same guy...how much of the CNC program actually changed between the 2 companies? I just can't understand why he is on YellowBullet pioneering TSP's stuff, but won't respond when asked about the differences between the two programs. Just food for thought.
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01-03-2013, 10:15 AM
#64
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As for Patriot and Terry Wilkes, what are you talking about? We do all of our CNC machining in-house. NONE of our products use anything from Patriot Performance. We have not dealt with them since 2004. Do you really think a business would let an employee walk out of their building with port information??? Every single port for ALL of the PRC cylinder heads were developed, not copied. We are more than capable of developing our own ports, and we do. Terry Wilkes is not an owner or employee of PRC or Texas Speed. It sounds like you're being fed more mis-information to take the focus off of the original topic. Terry can't answer questions about PRC port information because he doesn't have any of our port information! I can't give you specifics on ports from Patriot, Trick Flow, AFR, or any other cylinder head company because we don't have their specific port data. Just the same, they don't have our data. Furthermore, we started offering our current 227cc port in our LS6 heads in 2007. So, do you think we stole a design and then kept it under wraps for three years? Terry doesn't answer for Texas Speed & Performance or Precision Race Components because he doesn't represent either company, nor do we answer for his business. If you would like information on our products, you should actually give us a call or contact us instead of posting mis-information. Not too sure where your hatred for TSP/PRC comes from, but trying to pull up rumors from nine years ago is a reach, at best.
Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion, and that's great! There are multiple manufacturers for most products, so the consumer has choices. We simply want current and potential customers to be educated when they are looking at our products. There are many excellent choices, which benefits every single consumer! Competition is a good thing for everyone, and we want to make sure that customers base their decision on solid information. Regardless of whether you purchase our products or not, we appreciate the consideration and want consumers to make their decision either way based on solid information.
Trevor
Texas Speed & Performance
Terry doesn't answer for Texas Speed & Performance or Precision Race Components because he doesn't represent either company, nor do we answer for his business. If you would like information on our products, you should actually give us a call or contact us instead of posting mis-information. Not too sure where your hatred for TSP/PRC comes from, but trying to pull up rumors from nine years ago is a reach, at best.Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion, and that's great! There are multiple manufacturers for most products, so the consumer has choices. We simply want current and potential customers to be educated when they are looking at our products. There are many excellent choices, which benefits every single consumer! Competition is a good thing for everyone, and we want to make sure that customers base their decision on solid information. Regardless of whether you purchase our products or not, we appreciate the consideration and want consumers to make their decision either way based on solid information.
Trevor
Texas Speed & Performance
Last edited by BattleSausage; 01-03-2013 at 11:00 AM.
01-03-2013, 10:50 AM
#65
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Ahhh, I have it figured out now. Quoted from the PM Terry sent me
Amazingly enough, for someone who had no affiliation with TSP, in post 20 here he claims to be doing the work for TSP.
Then in post 26 this little nugget comes along:
This can all be found here.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/ls1tech-s...-racetech.html
Amazing how the person who developed the program doesn't have the specifics about it. Rumors aren't rumors if they were confirmed, even if they were from years ago. If they were just rumors, it still doesn't make sense why someone with no affiliation is pushing the product on another board. You guys are so full of your own **** it's not even funny. There was no hatred toward TSP, at least from me, when this thread started. But after hearing a few comments that I knew to be lies get posted, it got me interested in digging.
Originally Posted by TVWilkes
I think you are completely misinformed. PRC didn't start making a head until years after I left Patriot. PRC uses nothing from Patriot. They are 2 completely different companies and completely different cylinder heads. I do not perform the porting work on the PRC heads, this is done in house in Texas. I live in Alabama.
Originally Posted by TVWilkes
Get your **** straight!Patriot never had anyone in texas perform any work for them.PRC heads have nothing in common to Patriot.thats the last time I will say this.The only common thing is that I used to work there.FWIW,I didn't perform the work in question.The reason That I am performing the work,is to now is to offer a better set of heads that is quality controlled to the way PRC needs them to be.
Originally Posted by Jason 98 TA
The first few heads were outsourced in cnc & finish work. Shortly after we began cnc porting the heads & having them finished at a local machine shop. All the cylinder heads now are ported here & finished by Terry who has spent as much time on a flow bench as just about anyone on this board.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/ls1tech-s...-racetech.html
Amazing how the person who developed the program doesn't have the specifics about it. Rumors aren't rumors if they were confirmed, even if they were from years ago. If they were just rumors, it still doesn't make sense why someone with no affiliation is pushing the product on another board. You guys are so full of your own **** it's not even funny. There was no hatred toward TSP, at least from me, when this thread started. But after hearing a few comments that I knew to be lies get posted, it got me interested in digging.
01-03-2013, 08:49 PM
#67
TECH Fanatic
The current line of PRC heads have nothing to do with the 10 year old Patriot line of heads. The porting and port designs of the PRC heads are performed at the PRC shop in Lubbock, Texas. That's old thread and doesn't reflect the current manufacting process of PRC.
01-03-2013, 10:00 PM
#68
Ahhh, I have it figured out now. Quoted from the PM Terry sent me
Amazingly enough, for someone who had no affiliation with TSP, in post 20 here he claims to be doing the work for TSP.
Then in post 26 this little nugget comes along:
This can all be found here.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/ls1tech-s...-racetech.html
Amazing how the person who developed the program doesn't have the specifics about it. Rumors aren't rumors if they were confirmed, even if they were from years ago. If they were just rumors, it still doesn't make sense why someone with no affiliation is pushing the product on another board. You guys are so full of your own **** it's not even funny. There was no hatred toward TSP, at least from me, when this thread started. But after hearing a few comments that I knew to be lies get posted, it got me interested in digging.
Amazingly enough, for someone who had no affiliation with TSP, in post 20 here he claims to be doing the work for TSP.
Then in post 26 this little nugget comes along:
This can all be found here.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/ls1tech-s...-racetech.html
Amazing how the person who developed the program doesn't have the specifics about it. Rumors aren't rumors if they were confirmed, even if they were from years ago. If they were just rumors, it still doesn't make sense why someone with no affiliation is pushing the product on another board. You guys are so full of your own **** it's not even funny. There was no hatred toward TSP, at least from me, when this thread started. But after hearing a few comments that I knew to be lies get posted, it got me interested in digging.
Wow....really?? 2005 bashing?
Worthless links IMHO...after reviewing the post, it seems to me the guy didn't even really have PRC heads. Why would you complain about the flow #s to be graciously offered a new set from Jason himself and never go through with it or even send the heads back at zero cost....seems fishy to me.
What was mentioned though, check out the dyno section. The PRC heads are proven to perform well.
Talk about a hater...
I know I don't care about 8 years ago or "who" really did the porting job.
Its all about performance, cost and most importantly customer service and that really can't be beat. Texas Speed is solid!
01-03-2013, 10:05 PM
#69
Lmao this is a stupid discussion without a doubt.
Anyone who thinks or wants to accuse us of doing anything related to patriot is rediculous. I dont know what kind of lie you think your uncovering but your information is all jacked up.
When terry left patriot we did stop selling their products about a quarter later. From that point we outsourced cnc work to a shop in Arkansas. We had local guys and later on Terry help us finish them until we found and purchased our own cnc equipment. One we purchased our own equipment we began selling our in house machined heads that were hand finished here at TSP.
Its really a story of a company growing and expanding as it goes. First we outsourced then we cnc'd and had the seat work outsourced. Later on when we were able to we added a newen seat and guide machine. From that point we were able to do everything in house. Fast forward to today and we run 6 CNC machines 2 CNC seat and guide machines and a CNC lathe dedicated to making all kinds of different LS stuff includingn20 plus different LS heads.
It's easy to see why Terry supports the product so much, he knows all the love and attention to detail that goes into the cylinder heads. Terry helps machine lots of products for us and has been a friend for a long time. Pretty much if there's something that can be machined he knows how to do it! That's a pretty rare talent, most people especially in the LS world talk a big game when they're really just reselling others rebagged parts. A perfect example of this is valve springs. How many people still sell patriots old gold or platinum spring from associated even though we all know they were proven to lose height and pressure quickly. 4 years ago that was where technology was, now springs have improved drastically for anyone who has invested the time and resources to move the LS industry forward.
To compare anything we do to anything Patriot (which is out of business) does is insulting. The level of product that leaves our facility is 1000 percent second to none. Don't believe me then go ahead and bring any competitors cylinder head here and we can do side by side comparisons. One of the great things about having a million dollar plus facility is all the in house testing equipment such as the engine dynos...
It's time to give up the lame witch hunt. If you'd like to discuss our company please give us a call. My guess is you'll never call because it seems to me this is just a attempt to mislead and discredit...
I'd like to apologize to anyone reading the thread hoping for helpful information and not Internet b.s.
Anyone interested in our products or the evolution of our cylinder head line please give us a call. 8 year old posts don't really apply to what we are doing in 2013.
Anyone who thinks or wants to accuse us of doing anything related to patriot is rediculous. I dont know what kind of lie you think your uncovering but your information is all jacked up.
When terry left patriot we did stop selling their products about a quarter later. From that point we outsourced cnc work to a shop in Arkansas. We had local guys and later on Terry help us finish them until we found and purchased our own cnc equipment. One we purchased our own equipment we began selling our in house machined heads that were hand finished here at TSP.
Its really a story of a company growing and expanding as it goes. First we outsourced then we cnc'd and had the seat work outsourced. Later on when we were able to we added a newen seat and guide machine. From that point we were able to do everything in house. Fast forward to today and we run 6 CNC machines 2 CNC seat and guide machines and a CNC lathe dedicated to making all kinds of different LS stuff includingn20 plus different LS heads.
It's easy to see why Terry supports the product so much, he knows all the love and attention to detail that goes into the cylinder heads. Terry helps machine lots of products for us and has been a friend for a long time. Pretty much if there's something that can be machined he knows how to do it! That's a pretty rare talent, most people especially in the LS world talk a big game when they're really just reselling others rebagged parts. A perfect example of this is valve springs. How many people still sell patriots old gold or platinum spring from associated even though we all know they were proven to lose height and pressure quickly. 4 years ago that was where technology was, now springs have improved drastically for anyone who has invested the time and resources to move the LS industry forward.
To compare anything we do to anything Patriot (which is out of business) does is insulting. The level of product that leaves our facility is 1000 percent second to none. Don't believe me then go ahead and bring any competitors cylinder head here and we can do side by side comparisons. One of the great things about having a million dollar plus facility is all the in house testing equipment such as the engine dynos...
It's time to give up the lame witch hunt. If you'd like to discuss our company please give us a call. My guess is you'll never call because it seems to me this is just a attempt to mislead and discredit...
I'd like to apologize to anyone reading the thread hoping for helpful information and not Internet b.s.
Anyone interested in our products or the evolution of our cylinder head line please give us a call. 8 year old posts don't really apply to what we are doing in 2013.
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Jason
Co-Owner, Texas Speed & Performance, Ltd.
2005 Twin Turbo C6
404cid Stroker, 67mm Twins
994rwhp/902lb ft @ 22 psi (mustang dyno) www.Texas-Speed.com
Jason
Co-Owner, Texas Speed & Performance, Ltd.
2005 Twin Turbo C6
404cid Stroker, 67mm Twins
994rwhp/902lb ft @ 22 psi (mustang dyno) www.Texas-Speed.com
01-04-2013, 07:45 AM
#70
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Did Terry help develop your porting program for the PRC heads AFTER he left Patriot? That's all I've asked, never insinuated anyone did anything wrong. You guys just can't seem to get the story straight. First he did, now he doesn't, he claims he's just a friend now, etc. You guys have the reading comprehension of a 3 year old. You guys keep claiming that you have nothing to do with Patriot, heads weren't done by them, etc. I well know that and if you notice I never claimed that. Back to the first question, YES or NO? If no, then who? Simple question with a simple answer, not this long drawn out bullshit that you guys want to make it into.
01-04-2013, 09:43 AM
#71
You read multiple replies of ours and still miss what we're saying. Terry never developed any of our ports! THE ANSWER IS NO.
Mods, feel free to lock this thread. It has been completely derailed by someone with zero experience with our products.
Mods, feel free to lock this thread. It has been completely derailed by someone with zero experience with our products.
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01-04-2013, 10:10 AM
#72
I believe the questions have been answered.
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2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2018 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 Pat G tuned.
LS1,LS2,LS3,LS7,LT1 Custom Camshaft Specialist For custom camshaft help press here.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2018 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 Pat G tuned.
LS1,LS2,LS3,LS7,LT1 Custom Camshaft Specialist For custom camshaft help press here.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
