onefastsunsetSS

maybee its a longshot, but someone suggested that enough water got into the motor to push oil up into the heads when it was frozen. then oil went past valveguides into exhaust, from sitting until it thawed.

i'll be honest i cant imagine any place that much oil was just sitting if the block cracked.

there is/was at least 1/4-1/2 a quart of oil in my y-pipe.

after i got the pan in, , i was trying to start it on starting fluid. i sprayed wd 40 in it with coils unhooked beforehand, not much, then hooked up coils and hit it with starting fluid. kinda sputtered but didnt run and didn't even smoke to burn oil off, if any was in chamber. pulled spark plugs, no oil on them, but i can imagine that the way they looked they wouldn't run the motor.

i removed the fuel pump after testing wires and also putting 12 volts to it. its corroded n shot. sending unit was stuck also. relay is getting power from battery but nothing from pcm to turn it on. but if need be that racetronix kit above will fix that.............

i appreciate all the feedback i'm getting from everyone. thanks keep it coming!

blknSS

OK. He says the pan was cracked because water had gotten in it and froze. Enough water to freeze in the pan and sit for a year won't trash bearings? Maybe I'm misunderstanding.

ramairetransam

iTrader: (18)

just start this beast up , come on waiting for results.

Also you didn't have a car cover on the car?

Paul Bell

iTrader: (9)

Sound thinking but I doubt the pan was totally full of water. Even if it was, it wouldn't get between the bearings and crank.

There are many engines such as diesel generators that live outside for extended periods that start & run fine when needed without bearing damage.

The OP's real problem is the fuel system-which he's well on his way to getting straightened out.

Onefast, I'm thinking more and more to pull the valve covers and check them springs. Five years is a long time for springs to stay compressed.

Liljay, good call on the Marvel Mystery Oil shot.

blknSS

Explain this.....
[QUOTE=onefastsunsetSS;17036154]
there is/was at least 1/4-1/2 a quart of oil in my y-pipe[QUOTE]

Paul Bell

iTrader: (9)

I certainly can't. It's some kind of anomaly from the cold temperatures?

Myself and others were just saying to solidly determine that the engine was shot before moving to pull and rebuild it. This is done by starting and running the engine. Saying to rebuild the engine before running it is jumping the gun.

When the engine is started, if it runs fine great. If the engine bangs like cops at the door, then yes, yank & rebuild it.

bww3588

iTrader: (49)

I'm in for results. I've pulled old engines out of junk yards that have been sitting for 30-40 years and it does take a lot of work, but they eventually fire.

Of course, they don't run the greatest, but work enough to decide if it's worth rebuilding.

blknSS

I agree. But odds are with given information that it will be a miracle all is well when it starts/couple miles down the rd.

bww3588

iTrader: (49)

Also, I bet the "oil" you seen coming out of the exhaust was just water that had laid in the carbon build up in the pipe. I've had this happen and it truly does look, feel and smell like oil.

slamminjim

iTrader: (6)

Once you pull an engine you lost the opportunity to diagnose it.
Now you are inspecting it. The last thing you should do is pull it.
Exhaust every possibility and leave complete tear down as your last option.

FAD2BLK93

Even if the fuel pump isn't putting fuel in the system i would think that it would start on the ether? Maybe run codes for a security system shutdown. Just to be sure and rule that out. Just my .02

onefastsunsetSS

well, i've got a fuel pump motor rigged to the sending unit(good enough for just running, no driving). i've drained the tank. i took a good look at the stuff in the exhaust. maybee water/carbon mixture. it leave a spot on concrete the wont wash off.

the car sputtered on the ether the other day. as soon as i pulled the plugs, i realized why. they are fouled and dirty.

now tomorrow night, as long as i get the plugs back in early enough, its time to make some noise. still dont know why there is no pcm signal on the fuel pump
relay, but i have jumper wires to the pump.

i'll try to make a vid of the fire-up.


also, it would have been good to check the springs, but at this point i've cranked the engine for so long i am gonna just go for it.

Paul Bell

iTrader: (9)

ah-HA! Water sitting in an exhaust system will turn black from the soot in the piping. Fooled ya, eh?

It sound's like this engine will live!

LilJayV10

iTrader: (39)

Check to see if you are getting power out of the PCM fo the fuel pump relay. Pin 9 which is a DK GRN/WHT wire. Use a DMM or similar, don't use a test light, to see if the PCM is commanding the relay on. As long as the car has sat there's a chance something could have chewed some wires up somewhere. If you are getting power there check it at relay which I think you have done. There's a c101 connector between the PCM and the relay but I don't know where it is. What pin are you checking on the relay for the input from the PCM.

Also make sure you have a ground on the fuel pump relay. You can have power every where but if the ground is messed up it will cause the same problem.

The ground wire is the BLK/WHT wire.

The PCM gets a fuel enable signal from the BCM. That's pin 30 on the PCM and its a DK BLU wire. I don't know what pin is on the BCM but I will look for it.

The BCM fires that circuit from a switched ground in the BCM. The PCM has an internal 5volt reference signal for the circuit. That circuit should be open with the key off and go to ground when you turn the key on or try to start it. If I'm looking at the wiring diagram correctly. I would start at the BCM connector first. Then go to the PCM. That helps in diagnosing exactly where the problem is.

It's possible the VATS is acting up. If you have another key try it. I've seen the resistor go bad in the key. If it is a VATS issue the two small wires that go to the lock switch could be broken.

Hope this gives you a place to start.

LilJayV10

iTrader: (39)

Here's the BCM connectors. It looks the fuel enable signal is from the D8 connector.

LilJayV10

iTrader: (39)

For the PCM you will be using the red connector. Pin 9. If you are looking at the connector once you unhook it from the PCM and the tabs are on top, Pin 1 is on the bottom left hand corner. The bottom row is Pin1-Pin 40. Top row, starting top left is Pin 41 then goes to Pin 80.

Something that you have probably done but I want to mention anyway is check all your fuses. You could have a blown ECM fuse or something like that would cause this issue to.

I would hate for you to do all sorts of testing and find out it was just a fuse. Given you have to find out why the fuse blew in the first place but at least you will be going in the right direction.

onefastsunsetSS

thanks that should be all i need to figure this pump issue out. i did my testing in the relay box with a test light also testing at tank connectors with a test light. but i will use a multimeter like you said. i did try my other keys. no luck. i will eventually figure that out. can't go wrong with that info an diagram.

now yes the suggestion of the water/carbon mixture could be it. hopefully.

i hate to keep followers in suspense, but tomorrow night should be the time. it wanted to run on ether, so i got spark. i will have clean fuel and also clean plugs. and marvel mystery has been in the cylinders for two hours so far. the battery is on charge. and my fuel pump is just about installed.

wish a sunset orange metallic 02 ss some luck. i'm sure other things may pop up, but as long as the coolant doesn't end up in the oil and the bearings stay where they should, it should be ok. thanks again for all the info.

LilJayV10

iTrader: (39)

No problem man. You will get it figured out. Using a test light is OK as long as you aren't using it on the PCM/BCM. A test light will pull enough voltage it can wreck a PCM with the quickness.

Depending on what type of test you have depends on how you can use it(still not a PCM or its circut). The older style tests lights that had a bulb or fuse style bulb in them, you could use it with some accuracy to see how much power you are getting to something by how bright/dim it is.

Most test lights now are LED's. They are either on or off. So 5v looks the same as 12v does.

Using a DMM is always the best way to go.

onefastsunsetSS

i have to apologize fellas........................i am ready to fire the car up but its too late to make noise. (its not my garage/house)


i do appreciate all the info from everyone. i'm not sure if i'll get there early enough to do it tomorrow night either. but its sitting ready when i am.

sorry to keep everyone in suspense, trust me its not my choice lol

LilJayV10

iTrader: (39)

so did you get the fuel pump issue figured out?