gagliano7

I could be wrong but i would say your pushrods are to long which caused your problem.

badazz81z28

iTrader: (6)

I doubt the push-rods were too long...That cam just because its advertised for more PTV than the MS3/MS4 doesn't mean it will clear your engine. You have to check to be sure. A high duration cam, .040 gasket, 62cc heads....very tight. Most people fly cut or have reliefs when going max effort.

JakeFusion

iTrader: (7)

You ordered a Tsunami and that's what it says? V3 -114? Did you order from TSP or did you get it reground?

tsquared38016

iTrader: (8)

It came that way from TSP. I talked to them about it. It is supposed to be the serial number they use for tracking sales and warranties.

RezinTexas

For that to happen it would mean that the pushrods were so long that they bottomed out the lifters and also prevented the valves from ever closing, thus preventing the engine from ever running at all. In other words, very unlikely.

JakeFusion

iTrader: (7)

Interesting. What did they say about the valves flycutting your pistons while it was running? I understand they are not at fault, nor am I imply such, but from what I've seen posted, the PRC aftermarket heads are supposed to retain standard PtV clearance even at like 60cc or 62cc.

tsquared38016

iTrader: (8)

Thanks for all the input from everyone! All the insight and information help to rule out a lot of speculation. Even the sarcasm helps break up some of the pain.

They say it was all due to mis-installation and the cam had to be off a tooth. Nothing for them to do. Don't get me wrong, the people there were very cordial and polite in telling me I am basically f'ckd or SOL. They offered a $100 discount on a $3800 motor when pressed for a solution.

At this point I am left with only two courses of action if I so choose to take them. 1) Legal - the burden of proof will fall on them to prove misintallation. They would spend way more than the selling me a replacement at their cost 2) Vote with my money and move on. The next $65,000 I spend on a 3 year project will not have a cent be spent with Texas Speed. Companies are short sighted and quick to discount the "lifetime value of a customer". At this point I am going with number 2 but leaving all my options open.

Since my original post I have seen so many people asking what cam combo, will these heads work, how to check PTV, what push rod length? There is a lot of good help on the web and the phone but there is also some bad. Take to time to research and learn from reputable sources with a proven track record.

I hope really learn that you have to take time and measure and remeasure on your own. If you don't have the money to buy the right tools and time for the job don't due the job.

T2

Sales2@Texas-speed

iTrader: (5)

I'm sorry if you felt like you were wronged, but we have no reason to feel responsible for this incident. We know this combo clears in a regular ls1. This combo and variations of it are all over the place, including here on ls1tech.

We have taken and still do take responsibility for anything that is a mistake on our side. This situation doesn't give me any reason to think we are at fault. We know nothing about the motor, and weren't allowed to take it down and inspect it. All we know is this is supposed to be a surplus GM motor. We don't even know deck height, as you tried to measure it with feeler gauges and didn't know what it was.

I do appologize if you don't like the discount we offered, but you have to see it from our point of view. We sell this every single day and we know it works. 1 guy blows his motor up due to the pistons hitting the valves. We don't get to see or inspect anything. He doesn't have any experience building motors and doesn't have any proper tools, but we are supposed to be responsible. I am sorry that you had a bad experience with this build, but we cant just give out motors to everyone whos motor blows up, unless we have a real reason to feel responsible.

If you have any questions or need any suggestions we are always glad to help.

Good Luck in your future builds.

Gary

Sales1@Texas-speed

I would like to clear some stuff up here. We have installed and ran the tsunami cam with the 227 heads many times with no issues. I bet we have sold that combo at least a hundred times, not to mention the same heads with our MS3/MS4 cams. We don't recommend the .040" gasket, which you did not buy from us. That being said these kind of clearance issues would not be caused by simply a thinner gasket. While the .040 gasket is not recommended it would still technically clear. The PRC 227 heads have a laid over valve angle which creates extra piston to valve clearance. To see this bad of a piston to valve issue the cam had to be installed off a tooth.

I think it is unfortunate that we are getting blamed when we had nothing to do with the installation of these parts. When trying to push the envelope, which is obviously what is going on here, you have to check everything. If piston to valve was checked at all it would have been clear there was an issue here. I am very surprised that you did not hear this kind of piston to valve clearance issue on first start up.

We are always here to help, but it is not fair to us to have to give you cost on a motor because of this. We did not make the mistake in this situation. I feel that the $100 off a short block is more then fair given the circumstances. We do not have thousands of dollars in mark up on motors sadly. Our prices are very competitive to start with.

I am sorry you are dealing with these issues, if you need help in any way let us know.

John Janz
Sales Manager
Texas Speed & Performance

outkast6991

iTrader: (34)

Do you guys (TSP) check the cams before they go out? I'm only asking because my last cam from COMP was off 4*. Not sure if this would have been enough to cause the OP's issues but it would change the clearance for sure. That's why I measure even if the vendor says its fine. On a side note to the op it sucks that you lost your motor but you can't expect a company to warranty a motor with a clearance issue. That would fall on the end user to mock up and measure

tsquared38016

iTrader: (8)

I do find this head of the valve kind of weird. It is nice and shiny like new. All the others show signs of combustion residue. Was it defective all along and stuck from day one?

leeluther252

iTrader: (17)

Stop the speculation. Check the valve free drop and deck height.

tsquared38016

iTrader: (8)

I do appologize if you don't like the discount we offered, but you have to see it from our point of view. We sell this every single day and we know it works. 1 guy blows his motor up due to the pistons hitting the valves. We don't get to see or inspect anything. He doesn't have any experience building motors and doesn't have any proper tools, but we are supposed to be responsible. I am sorry that you had a bad experience with this build, but we cant just give out motors to everyone whos motor blows up, unless we have a real reason to feel responsible.

If you have any questions or need any suggestions we are always glad to help.

Good Luck in your future builds.

Gary[/QUOTE]

Great more lip service!. Sure it is easy to pass the blame to the new engine building guy. I did not ask for a free engine. I asked you share in the blame. You clearly have missed the point. Did if follow the manual? No. Why, based on the information provided by your company!

You and your employees are legally accountable and responsible for all information they convey. Being new to engine building is why I was so explicit in the combination be tried and true. I followed your employees guidance and recommendations. Purchased all of the product (cam, heads, push rods, push rod length checker, mail order tune) Texas Speed with the exception of the gasket. Had I been told you deck all heads to match the cam combo I would not have switched gaskets. Never once was I told I would have to measure PTV. I did turn the engine over by hand multiple times with out interference or noise. I cranked the engine without coils and fuel to prime the oiling system and no noise.

I would love to come to your facility with a quality engineer. Would you allow that please? I bet not. So why don't I ask some questions now. Let's all hear some answers about your quality control program and guidelines.

1) Do you use statistical process controls for all inbound product from suppliers?
2) Are you an ISO, QS or Six Sigma company?
3) Do you conduct batch sampling of all castings to include X-ray technology or Rockwell hardness tests?
4) Are your castings made in China, India or Brazil
5) Do you perform cause of failure analysis for product returned or with a high rate of complaints from customers?

primer84z

iTrader: (7)

Great more lip service!. Sure it is easy to pass the blame to the new engine building guy. I did not ask for a free engine. I asked you share in the blame. You clearly have missed the point. Did if follow the manual? No. Why, based on the information provided by your company!

You and your employees are legally accountable and responsible for all information they convey. Being new to engine building is why I was so explicit in the combination be tried and true. I followed your employees guidance and recommendations. Purchased all of the product (cam, heads, push rods, push rod length checker, mail order tune) Texas Speed with the exception of the gasket. Had I been told you deck all heads to match the cam combo I would not have switched gaskets. Never once was I told I would have to measure PTV. I did turn the engine over by hand multiple times with out interference or noise. I cranked the engine without coils and fuel to prime the oiling system and no noise.

I would love to come to your facility with a quality engineer. Would you allow that please? I bet not. So why don't I ask some questions now. Let's all hear some answers about your quality control program and guidelines.

1) Do you use statistical process controls for all inbound product from suppliers?
2) Are you an ISO, QS or Six Sigma company?
3) Do you conduct batch sampling of all castings to include X-ray technology or Rockwell hardness tests?
4) Are your castings made in China, India or Brazil
5) Do you perform cause of failure analysis for product returned or with a high rate of complaints from customers?[/QUOTE]

Texas Speed can't say it, so I will. Quit crying. It isn't their fault you installed it wrong. Different story if you had them install it and this happened.

primer84z

iTrader: (7)

and what the hell does being six sigma have to do with you installing a cam wrong? If you are insinuating that the cam may have been defective, that is easy to check with a degree wheel and oh wait never mind you don’t have any of the proper tools or knowledge to check it.

I'm not in any way affiliated with TSP, but as a business owner, I hate to see someone trying to degrade a company because of their own ineptness. Take some responsibility for your mistake and learn from it and move on.

badazz81z28

iTrader: (6)

That could be, but that doesn't mean the Tsunami will clear and a with a thinner gasket too??? Every combo is different. I have read post on here with people trying to run the magic sticks with stock heads, some clear some don't. You have to check....

badazz81z28

iTrader: (6)

I agree with Primer84Z, TSP has a reputation to protect and doesn't want to create more conflict, so I will chime in too to their defense....This whole deal is your fault. TSP didn't install the camshaft or assembled the rest of the engine. TSP is right, we know nothing about the short block which easily could have been decked. If you don't know how to do something or have the tools, don't do it!

When you install a cam, you need to degree it and you need to check PTV clearance. You also need to measure for proper push-rod length. IF YOU HAD done that like your suppose to, you wouldn't be in this mess. Hell, this whole issue could have been caused by your timing chain! I have dealt with TSP before, and even with my small 228R cam they told me it clears my combo, but It would be in my best interest to check because there is no absolute way to tell. There is more to PTV clearance than just the cam. You are relying on tolerance everywhere down to the crank. That's why the degree kits and checker springs exist. Its part of building an engine.

I understand the temptation to just throw it in and run because others didn't have issue, but you must resist! Too much money is at stake.
I would like to watch the episode of Judge Judy on this one....

RezinTexas

Don't blame TSP, you should have measured the PTV yourself before running the engine.

tsquared38016

iTrader: (8)

Thanks again all for the input. It has been a great lesson. I am moving on and consider this a closed issue. I have picked up some new tools yesterday. I am picking up a new motor today (long block).

I would like to call out. Jake at Texas Spd. He was very helpful in working through the steps and guiding me. He was professional through and through.

I should be able to salvage enough of the engine to start on my 72 Chevy truck conversion.

RezinTexas

Good luck man, share your progress as you get moving again.

try this PTV procedure next time

http://www.scribd.com/doc/137049285/...RAFT-20-Apr-13