MTI R1 cam or TR 224??
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Dec 2003
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From: Huntington, WV
MTI R1 cam or TR 224?? Well I'm searching for a cam and I' believe I've narrowed my decision somewhat between MTI's R1 and TR 224/227. The R1 has a 232/236 duration and .575/.578 lift; LSA 114. MTI recommends the R1 for 383 ci or larger engines, so am I wasting my time with a large cam like the this or should I stick to TR 224 power adder cam with .569/.563 lift? Please comment on what type of gains you have experienced with these cams if you have installed one. I just don't know if the R1 falls into the overkill category for me... 
Also...would I need a converter with either of these cams??? I wouldn't mind getting one, but everyone tells me they are a must if you go with a cam as big as either of these. I need some light shed on this subject...
Also...would I need a converter with either of these cams??? I wouldn't mind getting one, but everyone tells me they are a must if you go with a cam as big as either of these. I need some light shed on this subject...
My numbers with the TR224 112lsa are in sig. I think you would definitely need a converter to take full advantage of any cam (I would do the converter first as you could drop as much as .5 off of your et, stock). The TR224 is a good all around street cam.
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From: Troy, AL
OMGoodness...where to start? Based on your converter question I'd say you better start small with the cam. Any descent cam will be a complete 
with a stock converter.
You are debating between two TOTALLY different cams. I mean, this would be like someone debating on 3.23 or 4.88 gears. HUGE difference. Do yourself a favor, don't attempt the R1 in a 346ci engine. If you absolutely must go with a large cam then consider the X1 and a 4000+ stall.
Do some reading on converters. There's plenty to learn about them. A good converter should be top of your list of things to do.
with a stock converter.You are debating between two TOTALLY different cams. I mean, this would be like someone debating on 3.23 or 4.88 gears. HUGE difference. Do yourself a favor, don't attempt the R1 in a 346ci engine. If you absolutely must go with a large cam then consider the X1 and a 4000+ stall.
Do some reading on converters. There's plenty to learn about them. A good converter should be top of your list of things to do.
Originally Posted by Colonel
Do yourself a favor, don't attempt the R1 in a 346ci engine. If you absolutely must go with a large cam then consider the X1 and a 4000+ stall.
.
.
I have the R1 in my 346 and it works great. I make more power than i did with my tr230 and It peaks at 6100 rpms instead of 6500 were my tr230 peaked. My r1 is on a 112+4 though. I am really not sure why more people dont run this cam. It makes great power and isnt to bad on the valve springs.
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From: BFE
I've just been in direct contact with Jason at MTI (forged 347) and R1 was my choice with a 114 lsa.
As Colonel states, with a R1 you will need a 4200>4400 true stall.IMO
Even with a TR224 a 3800>4000 should be taken into consideration.
Basically you want to match your stall as close to or at your torque peak (some other factors come in play such as str, and efficiency)
As Colonel states, with a R1 you will need a 4200>4400 true stall.IMO
Even with a TR224 a 3800>4000 should be taken into consideration.
Basically you want to match your stall as close to or at your torque peak (some other factors come in play such as str, and efficiency)
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From: Troy, AL
I'm not saying you CAN'T run an R1 in a 346, it's just that this guy doesn't sound ready to run one....well, that and the fact that there are just alot better choices for a 346 at that drivability level. I had an R1 years ago in a 422. No way would I want that in a 346...ESPECIALLY if I was at the level that I was considering keeping the STOCK converter.
A 224 cam would give you 95-125% (depending on the rest of the setup) of the track performance (not to mention WAAAAAAAY better street performance) with alot less headache than would a huge cam...and that's important for someone new to the LS1 game.
Just saying, based on his comments, it doesn't sound like he's ready for a cam with 468 degrees of duration. Hey, I've been doing this about as long as anybody and I'll be the first to tell you that I'M not ready for that! What's the benefit? If I were going BIG with a 346 hydraulic cam I'd go with something close to an X1. And if I were REALLY going big I'd go with a solid lift cam. And I'd be running a 5000+ stall and some monster gears with it too.
A 224 cam would give you 95-125% (depending on the rest of the setup) of the track performance (not to mention WAAAAAAAY better street performance) with alot less headache than would a huge cam...and that's important for someone new to the LS1 game.
Just saying, based on his comments, it doesn't sound like he's ready for a cam with 468 degrees of duration. Hey, I've been doing this about as long as anybody and I'll be the first to tell you that I'M not ready for that! What's the benefit? If I were going BIG with a 346 hydraulic cam I'd go with something close to an X1. And if I were REALLY going big I'd go with a solid lift cam. And I'd be running a 5000+ stall and some monster gears with it too.
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Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Dec 2003
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From: Huntington, WV
Yeah...I see what the Colonel is saying. Drivability is a huge factor in these decisions I have to make. I've looked into both TCI and Vigilante converters. I realize now that a converter is my first priority, but I'm not really looking to go for a 4000+ stall. I'd like to stay around 3200 to a max of maybe 3800, but how do these converters fair with daily driving? LS1 speed told me the vigilantes are nice because there is no need to flash the converter when driving around town...the car will still roll when taking your foot off the brake just like factory. Is this really true b/c if so I would definately spend the extra money for one.
Anyone have any comments on either of these types of converters and what range of cams should I research with my desired stall stated above?
Right now I'm thinking a vig 3400+/- 200 with TR224 cam would be a good starting point.
Anyone have any comments on either of these types of converters and what range of cams should I research with my desired stall stated above?
Right now I'm thinking a vig 3400+/- 200 with TR224 cam would be a good starting point.
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Verdad Gallardo TECH Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2004
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From: BFE
IMHO
TCI 3500 with 216/220 comp, or TR220 or MTI Stealth 1
A vig 3400 stalls more around 3600 or so
TCI 4000, or Vig 3600 with TR224 or similar
For driveability you better get steeper rear gears the higher str you go with.
My set up is TCI 3500, 2.5 str with 3:73 rear. Super combo, no looseness on the street.
TCI 3500 with 216/220 comp, or TR220 or MTI Stealth 1
A vig 3400 stalls more around 3600 or so
TCI 4000, or Vig 3600 with TR224 or similar
For driveability you better get steeper rear gears the higher str you go with.
My set up is TCI 3500, 2.5 str with 3:73 rear. Super combo, no looseness on the street.
Not bashing I have a few friends that have not had good luck as far as efficiency goes with the TCI I'd stay with the Vig or a Yank IMO. A Vig 3200 is a very popular converter and you can send it back one time for a free restall if you decide to go with a higher stall ETC...
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From: Troy, AL
"Not bashing I have a few friends that have not had good luck as far as efficiency goes with the TCI"
My TCI SSF lost 23 RWHP on the dyno unlocked as opposed to locked. Not too bad, IMO.
"LS1 speed told me the vigilantes are nice because there is no need to flash the converter when driving around town...the car will still roll when taking your foot off the brake just like factory. Is this really true b/c if so I would definately spend the extra money for one."
Don't get the idea that that is a Vig exclusive! That's EVERY aftermarket converter with a reasonable stall speed. My Yank SS4000 pulls off fine without touching the gas. You need to get to reading in the automatic tranny section here at LS1Tech to determine a good converter for you. I'll be glad to help with any further converter questions (in that section) you have after you've done some reading. Get familiar with the search feature.
My TCI SSF lost 23 RWHP on the dyno unlocked as opposed to locked. Not too bad, IMO.
"LS1 speed told me the vigilantes are nice because there is no need to flash the converter when driving around town...the car will still roll when taking your foot off the brake just like factory. Is this really true b/c if so I would definately spend the extra money for one."
Don't get the idea that that is a Vig exclusive! That's EVERY aftermarket converter with a reasonable stall speed. My Yank SS4000 pulls off fine without touching the gas. You need to get to reading in the automatic tranny section here at LS1Tech to determine a good converter for you. I'll be glad to help with any further converter questions (in that section) you have after you've done some reading. Get familiar with the search feature.
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From: Troy, AL
"For driveability you better get steeper rear gears the higher str you go with."
I believe you have it backwards. The higher the STR, the tighter it will feel. However, the stall speed has MUCH more to do with drivability than does the STR (a 3500 with a 1.6 STR would be tighter than a 4000 with a 2.6 STR, for instance.)
I believe you have it backwards. The higher the STR, the tighter it will feel. However, the stall speed has MUCH more to do with drivability than does the STR (a 3500 with a 1.6 STR would be tighter than a 4000 with a 2.6 STR, for instance.)
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From: BFE
Originally Posted by Colonel
"For driveability you better get steeper rear gears the higher str you go with."
I believe you have it backwards. The higher the STR, the tighter it will feel. However, the stall speed has MUCH more to do with drivability than does the STR (a 3500 with a 1.6 STR would be tighter than a 4000 with a 2.6 STR, for instance.)
I believe you have it backwards. The higher the STR, the tighter it will feel. However, the stall speed has MUCH more to do with drivability than does the STR (a 3500 with a 1.6 STR would be tighter than a 4000 with a 2.6 STR, for instance.)
Hypothetical: A 3500 1.6 and 2:73 gears is tighter than a 3500 2.5 and 2:73 right?
