Cam question
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On The Tree
Joined: Dec 2012
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Cam question Alright, so I have a stock (except for SLP Lid) 00 TA M6, I'm close to moving ahead w/ doing TSP 1 7/8 headers w/ ORY and an LS6 intake. I have a flowmaster catback that I plan on keeping. I know it doesn't flow as well as a magnaflow etc, but I like the sound and I am not concerned w/ leaving 5 HP on the table.
While doing some research and speaking w/ my brother (who's an LS1 junkie) we started talking about smaller cams that won't affect driving too much (my 3 year old son loves to go for rides so while it's not a DD, it gets more than weekend use). I started off looking at hot cams, but I really like what I've read about the TSP 224R 112, so that is going to be my cam if I chose to go w/ it.
Questions.... I know a lot of people do heads/cam at the same time, I am not planning to do heads, I want to do cam only. How much will installing a new cam affect the engines reliability? If it's going to put undo stress on it and make it more likely to break down, I'm going to hold off. I know anytime you start tearing down the engine it has a higher likely hood to break, but is it significant?
Is this a somewhat "safe" mod? And is doing cam only a bad idea? And out of curiosity, how much HP will a cam leave on the table w/ the flowmaster?
Thanks for help
While doing some research and speaking w/ my brother (who's an LS1 junkie) we started talking about smaller cams that won't affect driving too much (my 3 year old son loves to go for rides so while it's not a DD, it gets more than weekend use). I started off looking at hot cams, but I really like what I've read about the TSP 224R 112, so that is going to be my cam if I chose to go w/ it.
Questions.... I know a lot of people do heads/cam at the same time, I am not planning to do heads, I want to do cam only. How much will installing a new cam affect the engines reliability? If it's going to put undo stress on it and make it more likely to break down, I'm going to hold off. I know anytime you start tearing down the engine it has a higher likely hood to break, but is it significant?
Is this a somewhat "safe" mod? And is doing cam only a bad idea? And out of curiosity, how much HP will a cam leave on the table w/ the flowmaster?
Thanks for help
it seems to me that you are on the right track with the 224 or the hot cam , i run the 228r and for still being a mild cam it still has a little bucking at low speeds that doesnt bother me but i could ve gone bigger and dealt with the bucking from what i found it looks like those two cams perform awesome with stock like manners good luck!
A modest cam with hardened push rods and adequate valve springs should not adversely affect reliability other than (1) cammed motors tend to be driven harder (that is the point after all) and (2) the valve springs become a maintenance item in that they should be checked periodically will need to be replaced sooner than with a stock cam.
On The Tree
Joined: Aug 2012
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From: Dayton, TX
What darkman said about the extra maintenance. When you do the install I would upgrade oil pump, new timing chain. Check everything while your in there. Contact Texas speed and get there view. They were helpfull with my package. Thats great you are bringing your boy along. I have a 3yr old daughter who I cant wait to bring along once its up and running
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On The Tree
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Thanks for the.info. how often do I need to check the springs? Is it something I could do? I'm not doing the install aa my knowledge of cars.is limited. I'm a little weary of tearing into my own engine.
You simply pull the valve cover and remove several springs (as a sampling) using a readily available special tool and let a machine shop check the spring rates against the original specs. Most shops can also do this for not a lot of money. When the springs become week you change them out. (Or have them changed out, as the case may be.)
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Verdad Gallardo The flat rate allowance for a cam change is about 20 hours and would be a little more for the oil pump. Shop rates, of course, vary by type of shop and geographic area.
(In my area for example, small shop rates are about $60 per hour, while dealers are over $100 per hour.)
Usually they charge around $2500 for a complete cam swap. That includes all the parts (cam, oil pump, springs, pushrods, timing chain, maybe lifters, etc...) and dyno tunning. Considering that the dyno tune is around $500 and parts alone are over $1k, $2500 sounds like a fair price.
Thread Starter
On The Tree
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Thanks for the help, I think I'm going to paid to get it installed. I looked through ls1howto, it seems fairly involved w/ a lot of places for something seriously bad to go wrong.
Last question, any other recommendations for a cam that has good manners and is a proven winner? The 224r seems to be mentioned everywhere, what about an ECM cam?
Thanks again
Last question, any other recommendations for a cam that has good manners and is a proven winner? The 224r seems to be mentioned everywhere, what about an ECM cam?
Thanks again
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Dec 2012
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My brother is saying we could do it ourselves and while the engine is apart we could put ported ls1 heads on also, it would still be cheaper than having someone install everything.
Decisions, decisions
Doing a head and cam swap can be an enjoyable and money saving project, particularly if you can do it with help and in an unhurried fashion. The head swap part is pretty much ordinary wrench work, with little risk. The cam part does involve some risk related to the proper removal and installation of the harmonic balancer and the oil pump. If you are pulling the heads, you can remove the lifters and eliminate any risk of them falling into the engine. Finally, the cost a cam and head swap is pretty high (20 hours for the cam and another 20 for the heads minus whatever discount you can negotiate for the overlap between the two processes).
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On The Tree
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Now the wheels in my head are starting to spin. I could save a few thousand dollars if I do it myself, I read up on LS1howto, in your opinion, do you it's feasible to do w/o a lift and not breaking anything for someone who has never done it before? I would enjoy doing it and firing it up for the first time after doing the work myself would be an amazing feeling, I am concerned about royally screwing up my engine and pissing money away (although it would give me an excuse to do an LS3 swap!)
It seems like you've done this a few times Darkman, any special advice/tips to someone who may go ahead and give this a shot?
Thanks again
It seems like you've done this a few times Darkman, any special advice/tips to someone who may go ahead and give this a shot?
Thanks again
Read and re-read the how to instructions. Get the right tools. Special tools, such as the puller for the balancer, can often be rented or borrowed. Don't hurry, particularly during the tear down. Take the time to put the various fasteners in plastic bags with a slip a paper to identify them - this will save a bunch of time on reassembly. Leave a good amount of time for the cleaning the block surface and the holes for the head bolts - if you hurry either you will likely get to do them over.
I don't have a lift. Use jack stands and/or ramps. Never get under a car supported only by a hydraulic jack - they can fail with no warning.
I don't have a lift. Use jack stands and/or ramps. Never get under a car supported only by a hydraulic jack - they can fail with no warning.
I did my first h/c/i using ls1howto back in 06 i believe. key things is clean head bolt holes thoroughly ,DO NOT RE USE OLD CRANK BOLT TO REINSTALL PULLEY like what ls1howto says. use a proper pulley installer or longer ls7 crank bolt to install. verify and re verify everything. other than that its the best feeling starting it up the first time after all that work u put into it.
Enjoy
Enjoy
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Dec 2012
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I have jack stands and ramps. I didn't really consider doing it, but I can get a heads/cam setup for like 2500, which would be the cost of a cam install. Save me a lot of money, I would also do the intake, oil pump and timing chain.
Very interesting..... I'm going to start checking into setups
Thanks
Very interesting..... I'm going to start checking into setups
Thanks