How cool is too cool?
12-05-2013, 08:59 AM
#41
11 Second Club
The ford Taurus fans seem to be fairly popular among the swap crowd. but I think just about any fan that fits will get the job done. Just make sure its properly shrouded.
12-05-2013, 09:01 AM
#42
I figured I would I would just install it in the center of the factory shroud. Should be OK, no? I know its a different type of shroud than is typically used with electric, but it does fully encapsulate the radiator. It just sticks out farther into the engine bay so that it can sort of mate up with the mechanical fan.
12-05-2013, 09:57 PM
#44
160 thermostat for summer
185 stat for fall and spring
195 or stock stat for winter
the motor needs some kind of heat for the motor to run good and properly...too cold is very bad....with a bigger aluminum radiator the car will run alot cooler than stock....just keep an eye on the water temp gauge
185 stat for fall and spring
195 or stock stat for winter
the motor needs some kind of heat for the motor to run good and properly...too cold is very bad....with a bigger aluminum radiator the car will run alot cooler than stock....just keep an eye on the water temp gauge
02-14-2014, 10:31 AM
#46
You're actually describing a pretty normal situation. The thermostat will always allow some fluid flow, even when closed. Otherwise when it opens you'll get a big slug of hot water hitting the radiator all at once. That's a bad thing.
Testing the thermostat is easy. Put it and a thermometer in a pot of water on the stove and see how it behaves. You'll see it's somewhat of a gradual opening. It doesn't open and close all at once.
160* is about minimum. Below that you get accelerated cylinder wall wear. Also, oil and water temps tend to be about the same. <160* is too cold for the oil, too.
Most cars made in the last 10-15 years are programmed to run around 200-210*. That's for emissions, not efficiency or mileage. Many times if you put a colder stat in, the computer will never get out of "choke" mode, and will always run rich. Which, of course, kills gas mileage.
Most engines will make more power and be more efficient when run cooler; heat soaking will really kill your power at the track. But you have to program the computer to recognize this lower temp as normal.
The cooler for the transmission isn't really a cooler, it's a heat exchanger. It keeps the transmission cool in the summer, obviously. But it also warms up the transmission in the winter. If the transmission temps are too low, it won't shift into OD. Again, killing fuel mileage. But that's usually a really low temp.
Electric fans are more efficient than belt driven. It takes a lot of power to spin that fan. Get the biggest one you can fit in there. Preferably, get 2 fans. Have one come on at 180*, and the second one come on at 200*. I prefer a 5* hysteresis, but other people like 3*. A lot of factory cars are set up that way - the Ford Taurus fan is a popular swap.
When you buy an electric fan, you get what you pay for. Get a good quality fan like Spal. Curved blades are quieter. And blades that are connected at the tip tend to be a little stronger. Don't let any mounting brackets come within about 1" of the blades. There's often some flexion, and you don't want the tips to touch anything. Dump the belt driven fan altogether.
A good shroud covers the entire core, and is fairly well sealed to the radiator. It also fit's fairly close to the diameter of the fan. If using only 1 fan, you can usually mount it to the stock shroud, and then trim the shroud or add some aluminum panel to get that tight fit.
My Cobra has a huge radiator and a 160* thermostat, Spall 16" fan mounted in a stock Mustang shroud. The low thermostat helps prevent overheating in the summer if I'm stuck in traffic in Denver. Otherwise it never gets hot. In the winter I have the same "problem" that you do. Water temps won't get above 130-140*'ish. So I cover the bottom 1/3 of the radiator with duct tape - easy to apply and remove, doesn't take up much trunk space, and available almost anywhere.
Diesel trucks usually have a winter cover that they can open and close flaps to adjust air flow through the core.
Testing the thermostat is easy. Put it and a thermometer in a pot of water on the stove and see how it behaves. You'll see it's somewhat of a gradual opening. It doesn't open and close all at once.
160* is about minimum. Below that you get accelerated cylinder wall wear. Also, oil and water temps tend to be about the same. <160* is too cold for the oil, too.
Most cars made in the last 10-15 years are programmed to run around 200-210*. That's for emissions, not efficiency or mileage. Many times if you put a colder stat in, the computer will never get out of "choke" mode, and will always run rich. Which, of course, kills gas mileage.
Most engines will make more power and be more efficient when run cooler; heat soaking will really kill your power at the track. But you have to program the computer to recognize this lower temp as normal.
The cooler for the transmission isn't really a cooler, it's a heat exchanger. It keeps the transmission cool in the summer, obviously. But it also warms up the transmission in the winter. If the transmission temps are too low, it won't shift into OD. Again, killing fuel mileage. But that's usually a really low temp.
Electric fans are more efficient than belt driven. It takes a lot of power to spin that fan. Get the biggest one you can fit in there. Preferably, get 2 fans. Have one come on at 180*, and the second one come on at 200*. I prefer a 5* hysteresis, but other people like 3*. A lot of factory cars are set up that way - the Ford Taurus fan is a popular swap.
When you buy an electric fan, you get what you pay for. Get a good quality fan like Spal. Curved blades are quieter. And blades that are connected at the tip tend to be a little stronger. Don't let any mounting brackets come within about 1" of the blades. There's often some flexion, and you don't want the tips to touch anything. Dump the belt driven fan altogether.
A good shroud covers the entire core, and is fairly well sealed to the radiator. It also fit's fairly close to the diameter of the fan. If using only 1 fan, you can usually mount it to the stock shroud, and then trim the shroud or add some aluminum panel to get that tight fit.
My Cobra has a huge radiator and a 160* thermostat, Spall 16" fan mounted in a stock Mustang shroud. The low thermostat helps prevent overheating in the summer if I'm stuck in traffic in Denver. Otherwise it never gets hot. In the winter I have the same "problem" that you do. Water temps won't get above 130-140*'ish. So I cover the bottom 1/3 of the radiator with duct tape - easy to apply and remove, doesn't take up much trunk space, and available almost anywhere.
Diesel trucks usually have a winter cover that they can open and close flaps to adjust air flow through the core.
02-14-2014, 10:53 AM
#47
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I know this has been brought back up over the last couple days but from what I read theres a few things to point out.....
1. The fan being on all the time will drop the operating temperature..
2. Blocking the grill as you stated will not help becuase the fan will still draw air through other area's with the grill-rad spaing on the truck... you need to apply the block to the radiator.
3. A larger radiator is also going to reduce operating temps because there is so much more suraface area...
4. Yes running an engine for prolonged periods below designed operating temperatures could hurt an engine.... I found this out the hard way on my racecar, I kept my fans on from start up and never allowed the car to get above 125-130 thinking I was helping it out but when we tore the engine down it affected alot of things..mainly the piston skirts were beat to hell from lack of proper thermal expansion/oiling....
I think if you took cardboard and did what was recomended early on and cover 1/3 of the radiator you would see a difference...this is why big rigs do this... so that in the really cold times the engine gets to a good temp
1. The fan being on all the time will drop the operating temperature..
2. Blocking the grill as you stated will not help becuase the fan will still draw air through other area's with the grill-rad spaing on the truck... you need to apply the block to the radiator.
3. A larger radiator is also going to reduce operating temps because there is so much more suraface area...
4. Yes running an engine for prolonged periods below designed operating temperatures could hurt an engine.... I found this out the hard way on my racecar, I kept my fans on from start up and never allowed the car to get above 125-130 thinking I was helping it out but when we tore the engine down it affected alot of things..mainly the piston skirts were beat to hell from lack of proper thermal expansion/oiling....
I think if you took cardboard and did what was recomended early on and cover 1/3 of the radiator you would see a difference...this is why big rigs do this... so that in the really cold times the engine gets to a good temp
02-14-2014, 11:57 AM
#48
I ended up taking the factory belt driven fan and shroud off and installing two 14" thermostatically controlled electric fans. Truck warms up if not moving because fans arent on, but was still cooling right down when I started driving. With a cold snap on the way a few weeks ago I used painters tape and a contractor bag to cover the grill from the outside. Didn't look very pretty but it did the trick. Truck would run between 190-205 all of the time. Well it got warmer out today and I had to pull over and take the cover off..... truck got to 230. It then cooled off to about 165-170 after about 10 minutes of driving. Soooo. Rad is too big, electric fans are good but didn't solve my problem, restricting airflow did but I need a better solution. I think that blocking off part of the radiator itself is my best bet. That way I cut doen on cooling capacity but still have some on an unusually warm day.
Russ K - that does make sense. I'll check that out. Thanks.
Russ K - that does make sense. I'll check that out. Thanks.
02-15-2014, 07:59 AM
#50
I might be. Will have to check it out. My assumption has been that the problem is the fact that this radiator is twice the size as the factory one. Because it is. Ebay radiator or not it is a big, quality looking and feeling piece. Who knows. One way to find out though.
03-03-2014, 07:30 AM
#51
What exactly is the point of the restriction? I was looking at all of the hoses last night and trying to figure out what was flowing where. The upper rad hose gets hot before the thermostat opens, so I know coolant is making it's way into the radiator. From there I am thinking that it then flows (now cooled) into the overflow tank through the line we are talking about restricting, and then back into the engine through the bypass line that goes from the bottom of the overflow to the water pump? Is that correct?
If that is what is happening, does that mean that one 1/8" opening is still flowing enough to keep my engine cool? It seems kind of crazy. Appreciate the help.
03-03-2014, 08:19 AM
#52
What exactly is the point of the restriction? I was looking at all of the hoses last night and trying to figure out what was flowing where. The upper rad hose gets hot before the thermostat opens, so I know coolant is making it's way into the radiator. From there I am thinking that it then flows (now cooled) into the overflow tank through the line we are talking about restricting, and then back into the engine through the bypass line that goes from the bottom of the overflow to the water pump? Is that correct?
If that is what is happening, does that mean that one 1/8" opening is still flowing enough to keep my engine cool? It seems kind of crazy. Appreciate the help.
Russ Kemp
03-03-2014, 03:33 PM
#54
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (7)
I had to make my restriction at least that small before I got any heat out of the last one I did...unbelievable the difference it made...night and day.
Unhook the "bypass" hose from the overflow tank, take the tank cap off, run the hose into the now open top of the overflow tank, start the engine. You will not believe how much water is bypassed into the recovery tank...
Russ, I can't thank you enough for posting that link...can't tell you how much time that has saved me since I read this. Thanks again.
03-04-2014, 07:20 AM
#55
Yes, Russ you are the man. I can't believe how long I've been dealing with this and the fix was so simple. Took a half inch piece of aluminum rod and drilled a 1/16th hole through it, then put inside the hose right before the overflow. Clamped it for good measure but its not going anywhere anyway. Result???? HEAT AND PROPER TEMP!!!!!!!!!
Two new thermostats, then a new fan clutch, then twin electric fan setup in place of the factory belt driven fan, then a friggin garbage bag taped over my grill. And in the end all I needed was 10 minutes worth of work and did not have to spend a dime. Amazing. Thank you so much.
Two new thermostats, then a new fan clutch, then twin electric fan setup in place of the factory belt driven fan, then a friggin garbage bag taped over my grill. And in the end all I needed was 10 minutes worth of work and did not have to spend a dime. Amazing. Thank you so much.
03-04-2014, 08:53 PM
#59
TECH Senior Member
This cooling system has an expansion/surge tank (rather than overflow tank)(i.e. a closed system)...?
So the fix is to restrict the flow into the expansion/surge tank...?
So the fix is to restrict the flow into the expansion/surge tank...?
03-05-2014, 07:10 AM
#60
Are you having an issue as well or just curious?