I wonder how many times the new Camaro owner has gotten sideways in the past few weeks.......

 

TVS2300... LS3 shortblock... BTR Stage III Blower Cam, and AI Ported LS3 heads... Keep the Corsas and add ARH Headers.

Done. 700rwhp. Super streetable. If I grab a G8 GXP for my daily, I'm going that route. Then, I'll have to do more to the T/A to make it faster.

 

I thought about going that route. For a G8 or 2010+SS that's probably the route to go too... that low end grunt a roots gives you to get a heavy pig like that moving.

I think I might go with a Centrifugal though as light as I am. ECS with either their Paxton head unit or a Procharger head unit, F1-whatever-is-recommended, but still ECS bracketry. Goal of 800+, but reliable.

All future-tense, of course. Immediate plans of ARH 1 7/8" with a 3" X pipe, down to my Corsa Sport. Then on to heads and cam. Probably LS3 small bores, and a custom cam from Ed.

I think the small bore LS3's with their 240cc intake port should compliment the blower well, well still not giving up much on an NA (for the time being) application. Only thing I should need when I order the blower is a new cam.

 

The ECS kit is very good. The A&A kit is also good, but I think I prefer the ECS braketry with the Paxton Novi.

My old dream for a Vette was a forged motor, ECS Paxton Novi kit, TFS 220s hand ported by Tooley, a blower cam, ARH Headers, and the LG Big 3 Exhaust.

 

The only thing between me, being the head choice:

MAST Heads: 12* valve angle

TrickFlow: 13.5* valve angle

Having said that... It makes me wonder what the difference is; not the added PTV clearance... But the "swirl" so to speak. The air entering the chamber. I get that a degree and a half may not be much, but by the same token, just clocking your spark plugs themselves is enough for 5HP.

So I guess my question is how does the valve degree compare to the air entering the combustion chamber and the associated velocity?

Flatter angle (Mast) or more of a diagonal knife edge (AFR with 15*) or TFS (13.5*)

 

It's a blower. Your power is coming from it. I would just get cheap heads with a thick deck. Therefore, TFS wins. I'd also keep the stainless Ferrea valves in there.

 

Requote:

I'm wanting the ECS bracket. All that's up in the air is the inter cooler. Who's is better? (That deserves a new thread, in itself)

I do plan on a Procharger head unit though, unless anyone can convince me otherwise. I want it LOUD-LOUD!

 

F1x for the win Dave. Loud as **** and all you can handle.

 

Do the ECS or A&A brakets fit Procharger anymore? Remember, Procharger got their panties in a wad that they were selling the head units without their brakets and kits. So A&A went Vortech and ECS went Paxton.

I guess the brakets still fit Procharger? Are they interchangeable like turbos with T4 housings, etc?

 

That's what I've been hearing, but a lot of this research and thread-finding I've been doing is a bit dated. I know a lot can change in a few years. Surely something I can clear up in a phone call.

As for blower size, I just want one that will optimize the cubes I'm working with. I have a feeling the F1X might be too big! Lol

 

Moving the valve angle flatter has a few benefits on a wedge design engine.
First the chamber can be shallower while still unshrouding the valves..less
CCs equals more compression from a flat-top design piston.
Second the bowl/approach behind the valve getting tipped helps the air/fuel
combo get around the valve more efficiently (inducing swirl as you said)...
unfortunately packaging constraints prevent the runner shape from being
in the ideal position. I guess the easiest way for me to explain this is to look
at the Livernois add where they show from L to R the LS1 intake port, LS3,
LS7, and LSX. The greater distance between the deck surface and the runner
floor results in a port shape that is straighter. Ideally you'ld want the air/fuel
combo to fall at the back of the valve to promote swirl, tumble & turbulance.
GM actually started quantifying these three variables when developing the
iron LT1 heads which led to the L31 Vortec design and found that too much
of any of these was detrimental to low lift flow. Now the new LT1 design only
has to move air; so atomization of the fuel particles is already perfect in the
chamber. IIRC it also has a flatter valve angle as well as a few degrees of
cant (BBC, Cleveland Ford, etc.)
When comparing the LS1's 15 deg, AFR's 15 deg,TF's 13.5, and Mast's 12....
you generally won't see a peak flow improvement because if your flowing
them on an equal 3.9" bore and the valves/runners are all about the same
size, then 310-320 is about all that can happen, however the mid lift num-
bers tend to pickup a tad which helps since the valve sees the flanks for
considerably more time than the nose of the cam's lobes.
Another variable to consider in this comparison is the quality of the valvjob.
Mamo's 15 deg AFR stuff not only gets massaged by him but a simple look
into the runner shows that the floor not only elevates but tilts as it approach-
es the bowl. I'm convinced that this is in an effort to maximize the low/mid
flow numbers...almost tricking the engine into thinking it has a better valve
angle than it does. Closing the competitive gap that the other heads seem to
have. I've not experienced the LS AFR's as you have but I've run/built at min
10 different GEN I combos with various sizes, CNC'd, etc. and the AFR's have
always made great power.
As far as you going to a blower, think of boost as extra (restriction). Over the
years I've spoke to plenty of people that switched from mediocre heads to
something killer and while it made more low/midrange power it didn't trans-
late to better ETs since when racing the RPMs stay elevated. They usually
ended up changing pulleys or WG springs to up the boost so the engine
would get more air in the higher rpms. Plus hooking on the street is already
difficult and wheelhop is brutal to the Vette driveline.
FWIW...some new push rods, springs, headers, and one of Ed's magic sticks
plus one of these....
http://shop.brutespeed.com/ATI-1GQ31...1GQ313-SCI.htm
will most likely keep that butterflies in the stomach feeling for quite some
time, even with those stock 241s.....Sorry for the novel.....

 

I agree. Don't put too much into the heads with the blower. I only recommend the TFS As-Cast for the thicker casting to help as you crank up the wick on the blower. Otherwise, the stock heads would be plenty. You can make 700rwhp easily with them...

Basically, you have to stop thinking in terms of NA. Lightest valvetrain, most head flow, etc goes out the window. Now, you're trying to keep boost in the engine and not lift heads, etc. Set the RPM at a reasonable limit and let her rip. Hell, even with the stock shortblock + cam + LTs you could see 600rwhp no problem with centrifugal sc.

 

I like the centrifugal kits, I just don't like how tight the charge pipe fitment is going down into the intercooler from the blower. They usually use a silicone coupler so it can pinch in between the steering rack and the sway bar. IIRC, I've seen some pretty good gains on a C6 Grandsport by rerouting that pathway.

I've read about a shop that installs centrifugal blowers, but uses a head unit that would normally be too big for the amount of boost they were trying to achieve (like an F1 for 9psi on a stock LS3), but set the BOV to open once it hits the boost they were looking for, kinda like a wastegate on a turbo system. IIRC, it gave them more boost and better power over a wider RPM range but I think it made a little less peak than a smaller blower set up in a more traditional manner.

 

APS Twin Turbo on the Vette... better overall kit than any of the centrifugal SCs.

 

Found it:

GMHTP Article

 

Now THAT is intriguing, to say the least. Kudos on digging up the article as well!

This thread has certainly been interesting...

 

Catching up on the reading a couple of things from Vette centri world:
1) I'd go go ECS Paxton kit or A&A Ysi. P-O-W-E-R on the way!
2) Prochargers are nice head units but from my discussions with different shops, belt slip and shredding is a HUGE issue.
3) Fuel system is the issue constantly with the FI setups on any LS, the Vette being no exception.
4) ^^^^ this is the reason, I'm building a big bore NA setup and not an FI setup. The vettes that I run around with in my area that are centri setups, are ALWAYS having issues and visiting the shop for something. At the end of the day, this has scared me away from FI. I want to drive my car without issues period.

 

Not to mention, done right with forged internals, the cost will be higher once done with an FI setup.

 

If I could find a screwed 5.3 aluminum block cheap, I'd send it straight to ERL and forget this FI debacle...

 

That's what I might do with my 5.7... ERL 454 time!