new heads for ls6 for driftpower!
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 44
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From: Amsterdam
new heads for ls6 for driftpower! Hi There,
I'am planning to upgrade my stock ls6 engine for better driftpower. This car is not used for the streets.
What i want is good power and fast throttle respons between 3.500 and 7000 rmp(limiter). I am thinking about 460 to 480 wheel HP.
At the moment i think the throttle responce is slow. Maybe its because of the intake manifold or the way its tuned(bij map sensor)
What are good heads for this kind of setup
AFR210 (i did send a form but no answer)
trickflow 220 or 215? Do i need hollow valves for 7000rpm?
and do i need roller rockers?
Here is a foto from the engine bay
And what would be a nice cam to support this
ms3, vrx4, vrx5
here is a dyno
I'am planning to upgrade my stock ls6 engine for better driftpower. This car is not used for the streets.
What i want is good power and fast throttle respons between 3.500 and 7000 rmp(limiter). I am thinking about 460 to 480 wheel HP.
At the moment i think the throttle responce is slow. Maybe its because of the intake manifold or the way its tuned(bij map sensor)
What are good heads for this kind of setup
AFR210 (i did send a form but no answer)
trickflow 220 or 215? Do i need hollow valves for 7000rpm?
and do i need roller rockers?
Here is a foto from the engine bay
And what would be a nice cam to support this
ms3, vrx4, vrx5
here is a dyno
Last edited by larsieboy; Nov 3, 2013 at 09:29 AM.
First thing I'd do is get a fast and get rid of the typhoon intake.
As for the heads, I'd go with TFS as cast 220's. The bang for the buck is great. For the valves, I'd get Brian Tooley to turn down some LS3 valves to 2.04, and also get powdered metal guides. The powdered metal guides will allow you to run stock rockers w/ the comp trunnion upgrade. You're going to want to raise your compression (that'll get you throttle response) so, milling will be needed as well. I'd shoot for 61cc (or less depending on cam and PTV clearance) chambers and use stock GM head gaskets. All this can be done with one call to Brian Tooley Racing.
For your cam I'd look at something like the ED Curtis (Flowtech Inductions) Hellraiser, Hellion, or streetsweeper. ALL of these cams have produced great power, and will get you (with a better intake) 450+ wheel HP. Now, this said, Brian Tooley, Martin Smallwood @ Tick performance, and Pat G could all spec you a cam with your heads to get you the power you want. Being a drift cam, and being in need of a cam that can rev freely, with getting you low end torque, I'd stick with a lower intake duration cam like the Hellraiser (229/236 on a 111) so that you have a more linear power curve. The more peaky you make your cam and dyno graph for that matter, the more trouble you'll have staying in the power band IMO. And for a drift car, a wide power band is a must!
As for the heads, I'd go with TFS as cast 220's. The bang for the buck is great. For the valves, I'd get Brian Tooley to turn down some LS3 valves to 2.04, and also get powdered metal guides. The powdered metal guides will allow you to run stock rockers w/ the comp trunnion upgrade. You're going to want to raise your compression (that'll get you throttle response) so, milling will be needed as well. I'd shoot for 61cc (or less depending on cam and PTV clearance) chambers and use stock GM head gaskets. All this can be done with one call to Brian Tooley Racing.
For your cam I'd look at something like the ED Curtis (Flowtech Inductions) Hellraiser, Hellion, or streetsweeper. ALL of these cams have produced great power, and will get you (with a better intake) 450+ wheel HP. Now, this said, Brian Tooley, Martin Smallwood @ Tick performance, and Pat G could all spec you a cam with your heads to get you the power you want. Being a drift cam, and being in need of a cam that can rev freely, with getting you low end torque, I'd stick with a lower intake duration cam like the Hellraiser (229/236 on a 111) so that you have a more linear power curve. The more peaky you make your cam and dyno graph for that matter, the more trouble you'll have staying in the power band IMO. And for a drift car, a wide power band is a must!
I'll second the motion for a HellRaiser. Mine was ground on a 112+2 though. I had 1 7/8 TSP headers, duals, AFR 205's (port velocity) and an untouched FAST 92/92 combo.
Here's my graph.
Throttle tip in, especially for drifting, is vital for your combo, and that's always been the AFR's shining point. Granted, I have no experience with TFS, but if Brian Tooley is doing the work, and you tell him your goals, I'm sure he can port the head accordingly.
Either way, my AFR's and Ed Curtis HellRaiser cam flat out worked.
Here's my graph.
Throttle tip in, especially for drifting, is vital for your combo, and that's always been the AFR's shining point. Granted, I have no experience with TFS, but if Brian Tooley is doing the work, and you tell him your goals, I'm sure he can port the head accordingly.
Either way, my AFR's and Ed Curtis HellRaiser cam flat out worked.
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
From: Amsterdam
I will contact Brian Tooley and will try to contact AFR again to see what they can do. I do need a company that can source all the parts(heads, intake, cam, bolts pulley etc) to send me everything at once to keep the transport cost down
Ok so the intake is ****.
I have a fast 92mm big mouth throttlebody and fuel rails on the typhoon.
Can i re use them when i buy a fast 92 or 102? and witch one suits me better?
Ok so the intake is ****.
I have a fast 92mm big mouth throttlebody and fuel rails on the typhoon.
Can i re use them when i buy a fast 92 or 102? and witch one suits me better?
For less hassle, I'd go with the 92. You've already got the TB for it, and your fuel rails will work great.
With the 102, you're looking at possibly new water pump or grinding the one you have, and new injectors (or spacers) but I'm unsure if the rails you have will work at that point. You might need a new fuel rail as well.
For an all in one package, one shot deal, Brian Tooley gets my vote. And you can actually converse over the phone and design something optimal, all the way around.
With the 102, you're looking at possibly new water pump or grinding the one you have, and new injectors (or spacers) but I'm unsure if the rails you have will work at that point. You might need a new fuel rail as well.
For an all in one package, one shot deal, Brian Tooley gets my vote. And you can actually converse over the phone and design something optimal, all the way around.
For less hassle, I'd go with the 92. You've already got the TB for it, and your fuel rails will work great.
With the 102, you're looking at possibly new water pump or grinding the one you have, and new injectors (or spacers) but I'm unsure if the rails you have will work at that point. You might need a new fuel rail as well.
For an all in one package, one shot deal, Brian Tooley gets my vote. And you can actually converse over the phone and design something optimal, all the way around.
With the 102, you're looking at possibly new water pump or grinding the one you have, and new injectors (or spacers) but I'm unsure if the rails you have will work at that point. You might need a new fuel rail as well.
For an all in one package, one shot deal, Brian Tooley gets my vote. And you can actually converse over the phone and design something optimal, all the way around.
Tooley will take care of your needs for sure.
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TECH Resident
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 848
Likes: 1
From: Working in the shop 24/7
Hi There,
I'am planning to upgrade my stock ls6 engine for better driftpower. This car is not used for the streets.
What i want is good power and fast throttle respons between 3.500 and 7000 rmp(limiter). I am thinking about 460 to 480 wheel HP.
At the moment i think the throttle responce is slow. Maybe its because of the intake manifold or the way its tuned(bij map sensor)
What are good heads for this kind of setup
AFR210 (i did send a form but no answer)
trickflow 220 or 215? Do i need hollow valves for 7000rpm?
and do i need roller rockers?
I'am planning to upgrade my stock ls6 engine for better driftpower. This car is not used for the streets.
What i want is good power and fast throttle respons between 3.500 and 7000 rmp(limiter). I am thinking about 460 to 480 wheel HP.
At the moment i think the throttle responce is slow. Maybe its because of the intake manifold or the way its tuned(bij map sensor)
What are good heads for this kind of setup
AFR210 (i did send a form but no answer)
trickflow 220 or 215? Do i need hollow valves for 7000rpm?
and do i need roller rockers?
As noted, replace your current intake with a FAST - also look into a good tuning system so you don't melt thing.
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Teching In
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 44
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From: Amsterdam
But will AFR give better results then Trick Flow?
And is the Fast 102 going to give more torque and better throttle response over Fast 92?
By the way. My tuning system is a DTA fast s60 system.
TECH Resident
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 848
Likes: 1
From: Working in the shop 24/7
Just wondering because sometimes it is a real pain to deal with customs. FedEx does a really nice job for my overseas customers but AFR uses UPS.
But will AFR give better results then Trick Flow?
AFR cylinder heads are an easy drop in package that doesn't need special rockers, special valve guides and are well proven. It's just a matter of choice.
And is the Fast 102 going to give more torque and better throttle response over Fast 92?
It's a matter of the camshaft used.
By the way. My tuning system is a DTA fast s60 system.
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
From: Amsterdam
AFR cylinder heads are an easy drop in package that doesn't need special rockers, special valve guides and are well proven. It's just a matter of choice.
Easy sounds good!
Something else.
Sometimes i have to do driftdemo's in small halls. I have a really big radiator and big fans. But still it gets to hot after a dozen laps. though when idling again the car cools down really fast. Is a electrical waterpump a solution? I already have 160 degrees thermostat. Some guys here say that a waterpump can also flow to much?
btw. thanks guys for the help until now!
Last edited by larsieboy; Nov 6, 2013 at 02:14 AM.
Hi There,
I'am planning to upgrade my stock ls6 engine for better driftpower. This car is not used for the streets.
What i want is good power and fast throttle respons between 3.500 and 7000 rmp(limiter). I am thinking about 460 to 480 wheel HP.
At the moment i think the throttle responce is slow. Maybe its because of the intake manifold or the way its tuned(bij map sensor)
What are good heads for this kind of setup
AFR210 (i did send a form but no answer)
trickflow 220 or 215? Do i need hollow valves for 7000rpm?
and do i need roller rockers?
And what would be a nice cam to support this
ms3, vrx4, vrx5
I'am planning to upgrade my stock ls6 engine for better driftpower. This car is not used for the streets.
What i want is good power and fast throttle respons between 3.500 and 7000 rmp(limiter). I am thinking about 460 to 480 wheel HP.
At the moment i think the throttle responce is slow. Maybe its because of the intake manifold or the way its tuned(bij map sensor)
What are good heads for this kind of setup
AFR210 (i did send a form but no answer)
trickflow 220 or 215? Do i need hollow valves for 7000rpm?
and do i need roller rockers?
And what would be a nice cam to support this
ms3, vrx4, vrx5
Regarding camshaft selection I would suggest our VRX5. This is a proven camshaft and will easily produce 460+rwhp with a very explosive power band from 3500 to 6800rpm.. A quick search on this forum will display many dyno graphs and track times supporting my statements above.
For more information on a complete package check out this link:
http://vengeanceracing.net/index.php...lications.html
Also, I would highly suggest replacing your current intake/throttlebody. That intake is known for extreme heat soak and does not produce anymore power than a factory LS6 manifold. The FAST throttlebody you have is known for drivability issues such hanging idle etc.
Feel free to give us a call to discuss your combination. We look forward to working with you.
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
From: Amsterdam
Something else.
Sometimes i have to do driftdemo's in small halls. I have a really big radiator and big fans. But still it gets to hot after a dozen laps. though when idling again the car cools down really fast. Is a electrical waterpump a solution? I already have 160 degrees thermostat. Some guys here say that a waterpump can also flow to much?
btw. thanks guys for the help until now!
Sometimes i have to do driftdemo's in small halls. I have a really big radiator and big fans. But still it gets to hot after a dozen laps. though when idling again the car cools down really fast. Is a electrical waterpump a solution? I already have 160 degrees thermostat. Some guys here say that a waterpump can also flow to much?
btw. thanks guys for the help until now!
Couple of questions: Do you have an oil temp gauge? What oil temps are you running? Getting your engine oil over 270* is asking for a spun bearing. Your oil is getting REAL thin at that temp.
It's important when cooling comes into question to remember the engine is cooled not only by coolant and air, but also OIL. Adding oil capacity with a high capacity oil pan would help, along with an oil cooler to keep oil temps down. This should help not only your oil temps but your coolant temps as well. Also, check into 4 core radiators, like a Dewitt's and possibly Spal fans.
Meh, on a water pump flowing to much. That's ridiculous is a racing application.
Couple of my buddies with LS1's and LS2's in Nissan chassis who drift religiously use a dual pass radiator such as AFCO, Mishimoto, or Griffin, add a low temp thermostat, a good oil cooler, good fans, and some body ducting (to channel air over the radiator portion). These guys will drive an hour or so to the track, beat their cars silly, drive home an hour and never have an issue relating to cooling. A few have added water/meth spray just to increase their cooling capabilities but most havent and havent had any issues thus far.
As far as the heads, I am too much of a noob to offer any advice.
As far as the heads, I am too much of a noob to offer any advice.
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
From: Amsterdam
No the Electric Water Pump is not the answer for extra cooling when a consistent hard load is on the engine.
Couple of questions: Do you have an oil temp gauge? What oil temps are you running? Getting your engine oil over 270* is asking for a spun bearing. Your oil is getting REAL thin at that temp.
It's important when cooling comes into question to remember the engine is cooled not only by coolant and air, but also OIL. Adding oil capacity with a high capacity oil pan would help, along with an oil cooler to keep oil temps down. This should help not only your oil temps but your coolant temps as well. Also, check into 4 core radiators, like a Dewitt's and possibly Spal fans.
Meh, on a water pump flowing to much. That's ridiculous is a racing application.
Couple of questions: Do you have an oil temp gauge? What oil temps are you running? Getting your engine oil over 270* is asking for a spun bearing. Your oil is getting REAL thin at that temp.
It's important when cooling comes into question to remember the engine is cooled not only by coolant and air, but also OIL. Adding oil capacity with a high capacity oil pan would help, along with an oil cooler to keep oil temps down. This should help not only your oil temps but your coolant temps as well. Also, check into 4 core radiators, like a Dewitt's and possibly Spal fans.
Meh, on a water pump flowing to much. That's ridiculous is a racing application.
Good deal now that we know you have a good flowing exhaust, I'd recommend a Fast 92 or 102 for your setup and a cam with easy ramp rates on the lobes to promote valvetrain stability and longevity at the extended high rpms you will be using while drifting. Feel free to contact me with any questions, just got done specing a cam for buddies LS 240 drift car. Chris, 817-750-2000