No warning, how can this be?
01-26-2014, 10:21 AM
#81
I washed my car one afternoon at home and didn't drive it afterwards. Next day my brother calls me, says theres a rod sticking out the block after cranking it. Removed the heads and one cylinder had water in it. It was not antifreeze! I always suspected the manifold but it ran great. I believe it was #6 on mine.
02-02-2014, 03:50 PM
#84
Staging Lane
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Your not going to believe this!! I will post a video of it in a minute but there was water inside the intake manifold!!!!!!!!!!!!
02-02-2014, 03:59 PM
#85
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Darn it, I can't post a video of it. But water poured out of the intake and there is all grass, hay, pine needles underneath. SMH
02-02-2014, 05:56 PM
#86
OK, so your removed the intake manifold from the engine? While it's not uncommon for junk like that to be laying on top of the heads or valley cover, the water is obviously is.
Has this car been stored outside?
Whatever you do, DO NOT crank the engine over at this point.
Has this car been stored outside?
Whatever you do, DO NOT crank the engine over at this point.
02-02-2014, 06:00 PM
#87
I'm pretty sure your husband would know this, water in the cylinders can do great damage if you crank the engine. The piston cannot compress water and a bent rod would result.
Pull the spark plugs and the PCM fuses and crank the engine. This'll pump most of the water out. Compressed air through the plug hole would help. Penetrating oil in the plug hole next to stop any cylinder bore & ring rust, crank it good with the oil shot in.
Pull the spark plugs and the PCM fuses and crank the engine. This'll pump most of the water out. Compressed air through the plug hole would help. Penetrating oil in the plug hole next to stop any cylinder bore & ring rust, crank it good with the oil shot in.
02-02-2014, 07:01 PM
#88
I've been trying to tell you all along but no one listens. Starters don't break off for no reason..................
02-02-2014, 07:11 PM
#90
I've seen 2-3 posts similar to this every month for years, but no one listens to me. This has been a problem from day 1 with the LS series fbodies. What's even crazier is GM knows all about this....they test these cars upside down. They knew the intakes would stay sealed long enough to get the cars out of warranty. The cowls leak from day one BUT the intake gasket start leaking a few years down the road.............
I'm serious I have owned 5 LS1 fbodies and EVEYONE had this issue. Every one had a loose leaking intake and a leaking cowl<recipe for DEALER work up the azz!
Like I said in a prior post the new Camaro has a complete engine cover for this very reason.
I'm serious I have owned 5 LS1 fbodies and EVEYONE had this issue. Every one had a loose leaking intake and a leaking cowl<recipe for DEALER work up the azz!
Like I said in a prior post the new Camaro has a complete engine cover for this very reason.
02-02-2014, 07:26 PM
#91
I've seen 2-3 posts similar to this every month for years, but no one listens to me. This has been a problem from day 1 with the LS series fbodies. What's even crazier is GM knows all about this....they test these cars upside down. They knew the intakes would stay sealed long enough to get the cars out of warranty. The cowls leak from day one BUT the intake gasket start leaking a few years down the road.............
I'm serious I have owned 5 LS1 fbodies and EVEYONE had this issue. Every one had a loose leaking intake and a leaking cowl<recipe for DEALER work up the azz!
Like I said in a prior post the new Camaro has a complete engine cover for this very reason.
I'm serious I have owned 5 LS1 fbodies and EVEYONE had this issue. Every one had a loose leaking intake and a leaking cowl<recipe for DEALER work up the azz!
Like I said in a prior post the new Camaro has a complete engine cover for this very reason.
What you're saying sounds reasonable, but I have three f bodies at 60k, 104k, and 108k and I have not encountered this problem. I also have not tightened the intake bolts and I tried to turn them all with my fingers and none of them would budge. It also rains very frequently here and my cars stay outside.
If there are 2-3 post for the past few years then would you mind posting some of the 24-36 threads related to this issue?
02-02-2014, 07:30 PM
#92
I'm not gonna dig through all this to satisfy you..........do what you want really don't give a ****!
Most guys think a injector went bad etc and never understand why their good running car went to **** on a cold start. If you read between the lines its always there...
2 or 3 so far this month......................I'm not keeping count
Most guys think a injector went bad etc and never understand why their good running car went to **** on a cold start. If you read between the lines its always there...
2 or 3 so far this month......................I'm not keeping count
02-02-2014, 07:35 PM
#93
Let's keep it civil people. While some cars never encounter this problem, others do.
Perhaps it's a production run or supplying vendor issue.
Regardless, it's not a bad idea to seal up the cowl on your F-body.
NOW, let's get this thread back on track. It's about HerHawk's engine. We don't yet know what introduced the water and frankly, it's not the cause of her originally posted problems.
Perhaps it's a production run or supplying vendor issue.
Regardless, it's not a bad idea to seal up the cowl on your F-body.
NOW, let's get this thread back on track. It's about HerHawk's engine. We don't yet know what introduced the water and frankly, it's not the cause of her originally posted problems.
02-02-2014, 07:37 PM
#94
I'm not gonna dig through all this to satisfy you..........do what you want really don't give a ****!
Most guys think a injector went bad etc and never understand why their good running car went to **** on a cold start. If you read between the lines its always there...
2 or 3 so far this month......................I'm not keeping count
Most guys think a injector went bad etc and never understand why their good running car went to **** on a cold start. If you read between the lines its always there...
2 or 3 so far this month......................I'm not keeping count
2-3 so far this month? It's only the second day of the month, what section are those threads in.
I'm genuinely interested in this problem.
02-02-2014, 07:39 PM
#95
What you're saying sounds reasonable, but I have three f bodies at 60k, 104k, and 108k and I have not encountered this problem. I also have not tightened the intake bolts and I tried to turn them all with my fingers and none of them would budge. It also rains very frequently here and my cars stay outside.
If there are 2-3 post for the past few years then would you mind posting some of the 24-36 threads related to this issue?
If there are 2-3 post for the past few years then would you mind posting some of the 24-36 threads related to this issue?
I've been doing this for almost 50 years and working on the LS1 since it went into production. You can't BS me.
Also the threads can be corroded and bolt feel tight with a wrench while intake is loose.........
02-02-2014, 07:40 PM
#96
In January I posted in at 2 that had this failure AND I think I saw another I never posted in because I feel like I'm wasting my time..................
I think I posted enough on this I've tried to help you guys.....do as you please.
Gotta add something else on the same subject....REPLACE THE STARTER WITH THE UPDATED STARTER so block won't break off.
Normally when a engine hydro locks the starter STALLS and no damage occurs. BUT LS1 uses a reduction starter, this can cause ALOT of damage not only by breaking off but by breaking the mount AND possibly even breaking or bending a rod.
The updated starter has a stronger mount that won't break off the block.
When you have a leaking fuel injector it usually will not cause damage because fuel is thin AND its directed right into a cylinder AND fuel pressure with the key off drops FAST.
Water in the intake on the other hand ALLOWS the engine to turn over a bit and the starter build momentum before the water locks the cylinder. Water is heavy and will not leak past the rings like FUEL WILL. So water + engine spinning = lots of damage OR a broken starter.
I personally SAW a notch half way through my starter output shaft so if it ever encounters a locked engine the shaft should break off.
Now I know a lot of IDIOTS are going post up stupid sheet so good bye ...no more posting from me for a while cause I'll get banned.
I think I posted enough on this I've tried to help you guys.....do as you please.
Gotta add something else on the same subject....REPLACE THE STARTER WITH THE UPDATED STARTER so block won't break off.
Normally when a engine hydro locks the starter STALLS and no damage occurs. BUT LS1 uses a reduction starter, this can cause ALOT of damage not only by breaking off but by breaking the mount AND possibly even breaking or bending a rod.
The updated starter has a stronger mount that won't break off the block.
When you have a leaking fuel injector it usually will not cause damage because fuel is thin AND its directed right into a cylinder AND fuel pressure with the key off drops FAST.
Water in the intake on the other hand ALLOWS the engine to turn over a bit and the starter build momentum before the water locks the cylinder. Water is heavy and will not leak past the rings like FUEL WILL. So water + engine spinning = lots of damage OR a broken starter.
I personally SAW a notch half way through my starter output shaft so if it ever encounters a locked engine the shaft should break off.
Now I know a lot of IDIOTS are going post up stupid sheet so good bye ...no more posting from me for a while cause I'll get banned.
Last edited by RockinWs6; 02-02-2014 at 07:54 PM.
02-02-2014, 07:45 PM
#97
Put a proper torque wrench on them...I"LL GIVE YOU A thousand dollars for everyone that is tight!
I've been doing this for almost 50 years and working on the LS1 since it went into production. You can't BS me.
Also the threads can be corroded and bolt feel tight with a wrench while intake is loose.........
I've been doing this for almost 50 years and working on the LS1 since it went into production. You can't BS me.
Also the threads can be corroded and bolt feel tight with a wrench while intake is loose.........
02-02-2014, 10:11 PM
#98
How I sealed mine:
I'll explain how I do it, I run a bead of silicone along the rubber seal under it to seal it to the plastic cowl. Then I put plastic gloves on and run a bead of silicone along the frt edge of the cowling where it meets the metal, you have to use your hands to pack it into the space. Run silicone in the gap then use your fingers to push it into all the gaps along the frt.
Lastly I take a gob of silicone in my hand and force it onto the bottom of each large and small plastic rivet that holds the cowling on.
Usually it takes quite a bit of time to get it all sealed properly, when you think you have it all sealed use a hose on the top of the cowl and test it.
Water should not drip anyplace onto the engine. Usually I find a lot of small places I missed around the rivet holes. Just keep using your hand to pack silicone from the bottom of each rivet till they stop leaking water.
I always check the next time it rains that nothing is dripping after its raining a few hrs.
ALSO BE SURE TO TIGHTEN YOUR INTAKE BOLTS<89 inch lbs<proper way to tighten them is to loosen them 2 full turns then retighten in proper sequence in 3 steps.
Sorry the weather is too nasty here to take pictures right now.
I'll explain how I do it, I run a bead of silicone along the rubber seal under it to seal it to the plastic cowl. Then I put plastic gloves on and run a bead of silicone along the frt edge of the cowling where it meets the metal, you have to use your hands to pack it into the space. Run silicone in the gap then use your fingers to push it into all the gaps along the frt.
Lastly I take a gob of silicone in my hand and force it onto the bottom of each large and small plastic rivet that holds the cowling on.
Usually it takes quite a bit of time to get it all sealed properly, when you think you have it all sealed use a hose on the top of the cowl and test it.
Water should not drip anyplace onto the engine. Usually I find a lot of small places I missed around the rivet holes. Just keep using your hand to pack silicone from the bottom of each rivet till they stop leaking water.
I always check the next time it rains that nothing is dripping after its raining a few hrs.
ALSO BE SURE TO TIGHTEN YOUR INTAKE BOLTS<89 inch lbs<proper way to tighten them is to loosen them 2 full turns then retighten in proper sequence in 3 steps.
Sorry the weather is too nasty here to take pictures right now.
Last edited by RockinWs6; 02-02-2014 at 10:16 PM.
02-03-2014, 04:13 AM
#99
Staging Lane
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At this point, my husband has decided that he is going to pull the entire motor out and rebuilt it from top to bottom. The reason being is that it does have 157k miles on it, it WAS abused big time by the two previous owners.
I can't change that, and we at least know that if we rebuild it completely, then we know that it has new parts, and hopefully will last much longer.
I can tell you that since we owned this car, less then a year now, it has always been under cover, never driven in the rain, never saw a car wash establishment, and has only had hand washings.
How the car was cared for by the other owner's is unknown.
Thank goodness that this is not my daily driver, because I would be in deep doo doo if it was. So for now, it will sit under cover, Bounce sheets inside the car to prevent critters getting in, and maybe next year at this time it will be done.
My husband has another project going on right now, but will tend to my Hawk at his leisure.
I want to express my gratitude to all of you for helping me with this!!
I am sure I will be back more to get more info/help when the rebuild begins.
It just stinks that GM didn't come up with a better idea to protect the engine.
I can't change that, and we at least know that if we rebuild it completely, then we know that it has new parts, and hopefully will last much longer.
I can tell you that since we owned this car, less then a year now, it has always been under cover, never driven in the rain, never saw a car wash establishment, and has only had hand washings.
How the car was cared for by the other owner's is unknown.
Thank goodness that this is not my daily driver, because I would be in deep doo doo if it was. So for now, it will sit under cover, Bounce sheets inside the car to prevent critters getting in, and maybe next year at this time it will be done.
My husband has another project going on right now, but will tend to my Hawk at his leisure.
I want to express my gratitude to all of you for helping me with this!!
I am sure I will be back more to get more info/help when the rebuild begins.
It just stinks that GM didn't come up with a better idea to protect the engine.
02-03-2014, 06:50 AM
#100
Thanks for that RockinWs6. Good advice and a good thing to do-even if you've never heard of this problem or even believe it, it's a quick preventive fix and could avoid catastrophe down the line.
HerHawk, at this point, a rebuild sounds like a great idea. Hopefully you'll solve the original problem, which is still a mystery to us all. AND here's your opportunity to soup up that engine!
Rockin, could you share with us some info about the updated starter?
HerHawk, at this point, a rebuild sounds like a great idea. Hopefully you'll solve the original problem, which is still a mystery to us all. AND here's your opportunity to soup up that engine!
Rockin, could you share with us some info about the updated starter?