GOOD HEAD!!?help
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 54
Likes: 0
From: reading, pa
GOOD HEAD!!?help hey guys, i bought my 02' ws6 already cammed and almost have the rest of the cars build ready to bolt on, besides heads/pushrods....
im a newbie to the lsx world so bare with me because i like to ask a lot of questions
---im looking for some knowledgeable ideas or opinions on what heads to buy...im stock cube full bolt on ls1 and the cam is a ms3 238/242 605/610lift on a 110lsa (wont be spraying but was told it is a nitrous loving/high rpm cam) I called TexasSpeed twice to ask two techs the same question "what would be my best head option bang for buck with my build' and they recomended their as cast 225cc heads...only thing that scares me is are they just saying that to sell thier product or is something like a stage2.5 ls6/afr head going to be better for me?? anyone running TSP as cast225/ ported 215 or 227 heads?
-thanks for your time and help guys!
im a newbie to the lsx world so bare with me because i like to ask a lot of questions
---im looking for some knowledgeable ideas or opinions on what heads to buy...im stock cube full bolt on ls1 and the cam is a ms3 238/242 605/610lift on a 110lsa (wont be spraying but was told it is a nitrous loving/high rpm cam) I called TexasSpeed twice to ask two techs the same question "what would be my best head option bang for buck with my build' and they recomended their as cast 225cc heads...only thing that scares me is are they just saying that to sell thier product or is something like a stage2.5 ls6/afr head going to be better for me?? anyone running TSP as cast225/ ported 215 or 227 heads?
-thanks for your time and help guys!
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 54
Likes: 0
From: reading, pa
well, before even looking for different options i was planning on the stage3 ls6 heads from TSP for $2000, but when i called and asked the sales guy, he told me he really never even sold a pair of them and to go with the as cast 225s..i called a second time to get a second opinion from a different sales tech and he told me to get the TSP prc227 heads 
...so my price range doesnt really matter as long as im getting something worth the extra money...i dont want to get the 227cc heads or AFRs paying $2400 over stage 2.5ls6 or as cast 225s for $1600 if im only going to make 5-10 more HP for 800 dollars...if $800 gets me 30 more whp in a better head than id consider...what do you think?
...so my price range doesnt really matter as long as im getting something worth the extra money...i dont want to get the 227cc heads or AFRs paying $2400 over stage 2.5ls6 or as cast 225s for $1600 if im only going to make 5-10 more HP for 800 dollars...if $800 gets me 30 more whp in a better head than id consider...what do you think? Their as cast heads are relatively new, so there isn't a lot of dyno/ET results like there are for AFR, TFS and even PRC heads. If you are looking for some budget friendly heads, TEA, AI or even TFS as cast heads would be good and you can reference lots of dyno/ET results by searching on here.
well when you call tsp not everyone is going to have the same opinion since they are just people they may have different views on "bang for the buck" with that said I would try to go aftermarket with the castings. the 225's or afr's would be very nice and the ported 227's better still.
when you get into well ported heads stock ported vs aftermarket. the peak power may only be 10-15 hp different up top but thats not the the reason to spend the extra coin. An aftermarket cast afr may only make 15 more up top than an excellent ported 243 however it will make MUCH more under the curve maybe 30hp. thats why you go with an aftermarket casting
when you get into well ported heads stock ported vs aftermarket. the peak power may only be 10-15 hp different up top but thats not the the reason to spend the extra coin. An aftermarket cast afr may only make 15 more up top than an excellent ported 243 however it will make MUCH more under the curve maybe 30hp. thats why you go with an aftermarket casting
Not in all cases. I've seen plenty of dyno results where AI ported 243's made more overall, and under the curve, power. I think it all depends on the overall setup and expectations. Aftermarket castings will also provide you with a thicker head deck, which is always a plus.
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Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 54
Likes: 0
From: reading, pa
when TSP recomends their as cast 225s over stage 2.5 243s for the same price would you believe them, or think just maybe cause they are probably going to make twice the money on their as cast sale
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Verdad Gallardo Hard to really say. I have not seen back to back dyno numbers between the two. The as cast heads are probably the better option because they give you the option to have them ported down the road. If you want a proven as cast head, look into the TFS as cast heads. You can get them for roughly the same price as the Texas Speed as cast heads. Brian Tooley can hook you up with a great deal on them, and if you have the extra coin, can hand port them for you.
briantooleyracing@gmail.com
Here is his e-mail. When I e-mailed him about a year ago, he quoted me $1,699 and an additional $125 for PM guides.
Here is his e-mail. When I e-mailed him about a year ago, he quoted me $1,699 and an additional $125 for PM guides.
Totally not what I thought this thread was gonna be about.
I am considering the AI ported 5.3 heads. $1,595 for CNC'd new castings with Manley valves. Springs and retainers are extra. Hard to beat that.
http://advancedinduction.com/LSX/AiL...cGM706Head.php
I am considering the AI ported 5.3 heads. $1,595 for CNC'd new castings with Manley valves. Springs and retainers are extra. Hard to beat that.
http://advancedinduction.com/LSX/AiL...cGM706Head.php
Yeah, not too bad a deal, but for $1,699 you can get 100% complete TFS heads. I was so back and forth between the AI Dart/RHS CNC'd heads and the TFS as cast heads. Obviously, I ended up going the AI route.
You won't see anywhere near 10-15HP difference between top ported 243s or any of the aftermarket castings. Not happening.
I wouldn't spend over $2k for heads. You're pissing money away as you spend more on a 346. Anyone who believes that is drinking the koolaid. The extra money is better spent on the FAST intake or moving to a carb style intake.
My recommendations based on that 2k budget (in order of preference):
-TEA Stage 2 LS6 Heads with LS3 valves
-Brian Tooley hand ported TFS As Cast 220s with PM Guides and turned down LS3 valves
-Used AFR 205 Heads
-AI Ported LS6 heads with stock valves (if you can find Z06 LS6 heads with the lightweight valves, they would go ahead of the AFRs)
-PRC As Cast 225s
I put a premium on valvetrain weight. So heads with lightweight valves move to the top of the list. Powerwise, these would all be very close. PRC gives more PtV clearance than the others, but the TFS heads are close as are the Ai heads with stock valves. Either way, don't get a giant cam with crazy lobes. Let the head/intake manifold fill the cylinder for you.
There are good vendors on here who can help you. TSP is one. Brian Tooley is another. Martin @ Tick. Geoff @ EPS. Or Tony Mamo @ AFR.
I've had a lot of good luck with them all. Martin and Tony give you a lot of rationale behind why you should run what they recommend, and I usually point people their way. And Brian has been doing this forever and just knows tons. Geoff has designed some of the most popular cams ever in the LS world and knows how to tune anything. So you have a collection of talent from which to draw knowledge.
I wouldn't spend over $2k for heads. You're pissing money away as you spend more on a 346. Anyone who believes that is drinking the koolaid. The extra money is better spent on the FAST intake or moving to a carb style intake.
My recommendations based on that 2k budget (in order of preference):
-TEA Stage 2 LS6 Heads with LS3 valves
-Brian Tooley hand ported TFS As Cast 220s with PM Guides and turned down LS3 valves
-Used AFR 205 Heads
-AI Ported LS6 heads with stock valves (if you can find Z06 LS6 heads with the lightweight valves, they would go ahead of the AFRs)
-PRC As Cast 225s
I put a premium on valvetrain weight. So heads with lightweight valves move to the top of the list. Powerwise, these would all be very close. PRC gives more PtV clearance than the others, but the TFS heads are close as are the Ai heads with stock valves. Either way, don't get a giant cam with crazy lobes. Let the head/intake manifold fill the cylinder for you.
There are good vendors on here who can help you. TSP is one. Brian Tooley is another. Martin @ Tick. Geoff @ EPS. Or Tony Mamo @ AFR.
I've had a lot of good luck with them all. Martin and Tony give you a lot of rationale behind why you should run what they recommend, and I usually point people their way. And Brian has been doing this forever and just knows tons. Geoff has designed some of the most popular cams ever in the LS world and knows how to tune anything. So you have a collection of talent from which to draw knowledge.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 54
Likes: 0
From: reading, pa
i already have a giant cam with crazy lobes just looking for the best head to pair up with...does Brian Tooley sell heads, cause i dont see any on his website or can i just call him up and he'll give me some advice?
I gave you his e-mail, so e-mail him. He gets back to you the same day. Just look around on here. There is not a better guy in the LSx community than Brian Tooley.
been mentioned but IMO not focused on enough, aftermarket heads need PM guides for a little more money on top of purchase price or they need aftermarket rockers for a lot more money and valvetrain control issues.
Aftermarket heads are popular based on marketing MUCH more than due to results.
Aftermarket heads are popular based on marketing MUCH more than due to results.