rotella t6 in 346 5.7 ls1
01-31-2014, 04:51 PM
#21
LOTS of bad info here.
Diesel oils are very often API rated for gasoline engines as well, look for an API SJ through SN rating on the starburst and it is gas engine rated. The "dangers" of oils still containing Zinc are being grossly misinterpreted. Gasoline engine oils had zinc in them up until fairly recently compared to the 4 decades-ish that cars have had catalytic converters.
On viscosity 5w-20 is PURELY a CAFE thing and racers are playing with 0w on cars that need 2hp more and get rebuilt very often. Just because groups are doing something don't randomly assume it is for the good of the engine. If a raceteam can gain 3hp and the bearings still last well enough between refreshes that is good enough and they probably refresh more often than 100K miles. OEMs are fine with 5w-20 because they aren't worried about engines lasting any more than 200K and if they can get .01 better MPG by sacrificing a little bearing life that is worth it to them. Look at the Furd turbo V6 they get a tiny bit better mileage but now a truck needs two engines in it's life rather than one. That is what CAFE does for us.
GM allows for 10w-30 all the way down to 0f and in warm climates ON OTHER CONTINENTS the exact same LS1s we got here were routinely filled with 15w-40 without harm and those other climates get cold at night, again CAFE is why you wont see allowances for thicker oils in North America.
Royal Purple has typically been good for racecars drained often but for street use it used to shear out of grade VERY VERY fast, that has improved in recent years but it is still much much more marketing hype than substance.
Really if you want oil info go to bobistheoilguy on car forums you are going to get a lot of misinterpretation and blind brand/marketing bullshit.
Diesel oils are very often API rated for gasoline engines as well, look for an API SJ through SN rating on the starburst and it is gas engine rated. The "dangers" of oils still containing Zinc are being grossly misinterpreted. Gasoline engine oils had zinc in them up until fairly recently compared to the 4 decades-ish that cars have had catalytic converters.
On viscosity 5w-20 is PURELY a CAFE thing and racers are playing with 0w on cars that need 2hp more and get rebuilt very often. Just because groups are doing something don't randomly assume it is for the good of the engine. If a raceteam can gain 3hp and the bearings still last well enough between refreshes that is good enough and they probably refresh more often than 100K miles. OEMs are fine with 5w-20 because they aren't worried about engines lasting any more than 200K and if they can get .01 better MPG by sacrificing a little bearing life that is worth it to them. Look at the Furd turbo V6 they get a tiny bit better mileage but now a truck needs two engines in it's life rather than one. That is what CAFE does for us.
GM allows for 10w-30 all the way down to 0f and in warm climates ON OTHER CONTINENTS the exact same LS1s we got here were routinely filled with 15w-40 without harm and those other climates get cold at night, again CAFE is why you wont see allowances for thicker oils in North America.
Royal Purple has typically been good for racecars drained often but for street use it used to shear out of grade VERY VERY fast, that has improved in recent years but it is still much much more marketing hype than substance.
Really if you want oil info go to bobistheoilguy on car forums you are going to get a lot of misinterpretation and blind brand/marketing bullshit.
02-03-2014, 11:47 AM
#23
Royal Purple has typically been good for racecars drained often but for street use it used to shear out of grade VERY VERY fast, that has improved in recent years but it is still much much more marketing hype than substance.
Really if you want oil info go to bobistheoilguy on car forums you are going to get a lot of misinterpretation and blind brand/marketing bullshit.
Really if you want oil info go to bobistheoilguy on car forums you are going to get a lot of misinterpretation and blind brand/marketing bullshit.
RP is a true synthetic, and M1 is not.
I also use RP in my Cobra. I race it, so I change the oil 2-3 times a year. I never bothered to get a UOA on that.
You're right on with www.BobIsTheOilGuy.com . If you want to know anything about motor oil, that's the place to go. I spent a lot of hours reading there.
02-04-2014, 07:00 PM
#24
M1 is a LOT more marketing than substance. It is fine but nowhere near what marketing cause people to believe it is. That said each application stresses oil in different ways, an oil that is mediocre in one engine can be great in another UOA is the only practical way we have to actually evaluate oils for the average enthusiast.
I don't know how hard Harleys are on oils, but oils go well beyond 5K in cars and have for a couple decades now. Back in the early to mid 90s GM was selling cars with no synthetic requirement and oil change intervals up to at least 7500miles and UOAs showed that to be at the end of the oil's life but not too far.
Any comment on the fact you were cautioning against using an API rated for gas engines, oil in gas engines simply because it was diesel marketed?
I don't know how hard Harleys are on oils, but oils go well beyond 5K in cars and have for a couple decades now. Back in the early to mid 90s GM was selling cars with no synthetic requirement and oil change intervals up to at least 7500miles and UOAs showed that to be at the end of the oil's life but not too far.
Any comment on the fact you were cautioning against using an API rated for gas engines, oil in gas engines simply because it was diesel marketed?
02-05-2014, 04:31 AM
#27
M1 is a LOT more marketing than substance. It is fine but nowhere near what marketing cause people to believe it is. That said each application stresses oil in different ways, an oil that is mediocre in one engine can be great in another UOA is the only practical way we have to actually evaluate oils for the average enthusiast.
I don't know how hard Harleys are on oils, but oils go well beyond 5K in cars and have for a couple decades now. Back in the early to mid 90s GM was selling cars with no synthetic requirement and oil change intervals up to at least 7500miles and UOAs showed that to be at the end of the oil's life but not too far.
Any comment on the fact you were cautioning against using an API rated for gas engines, oil in gas engines simply because it was diesel marketed?
I don't know how hard Harleys are on oils, but oils go well beyond 5K in cars and have for a couple decades now. Back in the early to mid 90s GM was selling cars with no synthetic requirement and oil change intervals up to at least 7500miles and UOAs showed that to be at the end of the oil's life but not too far.
Any comment on the fact you were cautioning against using an API rated for gas engines, oil in gas engines simply because it was diesel marketed?
According to the UOA, RP is a much better oil than M1 in my Harley. The harley is air cooled, which can make it a little tough on the oil.
Diesel oil has a few things that do not generally make them gas friendly. They have more detergents and suspending agents, which is good, I guess. Most of them are 15W. For most cars, that's a bad thing. And they have more zinc, which is bad for your cat.
UOA's can really save you money. I know I can run my Harley 7,500 miles between changes with automotive street RP. I know I can run my Cummins diesel 14,000 miles on standard Valvoline blue diesel dino oil. My wifes Mercury goes 11K miles on standard penzoil.
You often hear people say, "I use Brand X, and it works great." What do you mean by that? Did you measure your cam bearings for wear? Did you even do a UOA?
02-05-2014, 05:38 PM
#28
Rotella T6 is readily available in 5w-40 which is reasonable for an LS engine even if the 40 is outside GM CAFE designed specs. Not to say thicker is better.
Far as detergents and Zinc and such again API rated for gas engines. Look it up. The zinc level is not enough to hurt cats from a practical perspective and in this section of the forum a LOT of the guys reading this have removed cats in favor of long tubes.
Far as detergents and Zinc and such again API rated for gas engines. Look it up. The zinc level is not enough to hurt cats from a practical perspective and in this section of the forum a LOT of the guys reading this have removed cats in favor of long tubes.
02-05-2014, 10:15 PM
#29
You know, I think you just like to argue about stuff. I never said all diesel oils are bad for all gas engines. Most are, some are not. Viscosity is important, regardless of which engine or type of oil you're talking about. I don't give a darn about CAFE, either. I want to know what works, and why.
Go back to that web site and read about viscosity. 15W-40 is not a good choice for the majority of modern gas engines on this continent. Here, 5W-30 or 5W-40 are good choices for the vast majority of LS engines. When I drive on other continents, I drive other people's vehicles, and I don't really care what's in the crank case.
Some diesel oils also carry an SM rating from API. What does that tell you? It tells you that it has the same amount of ZDDP that regular Shell motor oil does. The only advantage to the diesel rating then is it's ability to handle soot without changing viscosity. I don't think that matters to me very much.
Let the UOA and bearing measurements be your guide.
Go back to that web site and read about viscosity. 15W-40 is not a good choice for the majority of modern gas engines on this continent. Here, 5W-30 or 5W-40 are good choices for the vast majority of LS engines. When I drive on other continents, I drive other people's vehicles, and I don't really care what's in the crank case.
Some diesel oils also carry an SM rating from API. What does that tell you? It tells you that it has the same amount of ZDDP that regular Shell motor oil does. The only advantage to the diesel rating then is it's ability to handle soot without changing viscosity. I don't think that matters to me very much.
Let the UOA and bearing measurements be your guide.
02-05-2014, 10:37 PM
#30
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ive been running rotella in everything i own for the past 15 years, with the exception of my srt8. and i mean everything, race cars, boats, lawn mowers, blown mustangs, nitrous c5, tractors, four wheelers, harleys, literally everything. it has never caused any ill effects in my time.
02-06-2014, 05:28 PM
#31
You know, I think you just like to argue about stuff. I never said all diesel oils are bad for all gas engines. Most are, some are not.
Some diesel oils also carry an SM rating from API. What does that tell you? It tells you that it has the same amount of ZDDP that regular Shell motor oil does. The only advantage to the diesel rating then is it's ability to handle soot without changing viscosity. I don't think that matters to me very much.
Let the UOA and bearing measurements be your guide.
Some diesel oils also carry an SM rating from API. What does that tell you? It tells you that it has the same amount of ZDDP that regular Shell motor oil does. The only advantage to the diesel rating then is it's ability to handle soot without changing viscosity. I don't think that matters to me very much.
Let the UOA and bearing measurements be your guide.
The API SM rating does not mean it contains the same amount of ZDDP, it would mean the same MAXIMUM allowable but many oils will be formulated well below the maximum level.
Went to BITOG and pulled the most recent Rotella T6 5w-40 VOA I could find and it was 1264ppmZinc which is near the SM API 1300ppm maximum.
API SN oils are a 800ppm maximum.
That is a while hell of a lot more if someone is looking for a readily available oil with a higher ZDDP level than current SN spec.
The reason zinc was removed from motor oils is mostly because it can damage the cat. A lot of diesel engines now have cats, so the newer CJ diesel oils also have lower levels of zinc. Still a little more than SN gasoline oil. It's enough to damage your cat, though.
You read a little bit on the subject, just enough to sound like you understood it and then mislead this discussion.
02-09-2014, 02:51 PM
#33
IDK. Companies are reluctant let you know. The only way I could get a base line was to change the oil, run the engine for a few minutes, and then pull a sample for a UOA. And that just have me a base line for my engine.
If you really want to know the exact number, sent a sample of new oil to Blackstone.
I asked them about this once. They told me they could not (would not?) be able to tell you what kind of base stock they use.
If you really want to know the exact number, sent a sample of new oil to Blackstone.
I asked them about this once. They told me they could not (would not?) be able to tell you what kind of base stock they use.
02-09-2014, 02:51 PM
#34
IDK. Companies are reluctant let you know. The only way I could get a base line was to change the oil, run the engine for a few minutes, and then pull a sample for a UOA. And that just have me a base line for my engine.
If you really want to know the exact number, sent a sample of new oil to Blackstone.
I asked them about this once. They told me they could not (would not?) be able to tell you what kind of base stock they use.
If you really want to know the exact number, sent a sample of new oil to Blackstone.
I asked them about this once. They told me they could not (would not?) be able to tell you what kind of base stock they use.
