Cam lobes new yzooom
02-24-2014, 07:47 PM
#82
TECH Apprentice
Thread Starter
Those look like they would be good they have 55 degrees from .006 to .05 mine have 55 but we have 27 on the opening and 28 on the closing I am not sure what they have but I would think they would be quit. Easy on the valve train.
02-24-2014, 08:10 PM
#84
TECH Apprentice
Thread Starter
OK if these were my lobes they would be 222 IN and 230 EX all of the lobes we make are quit. How aggressive depends on how much lobe lift you have with a giver duration so a 222/340 would be more aggressive than a 222/330.
02-24-2014, 08:30 PM
#86
It will sound like a sewing machine. Those lobes are really fast off the seat and really fast back on the seat. The snapping shut (fast close) is what makes the really noisy, sewing machine valvetrain sounds.
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2018 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 Pat G tuned.
LS1,LS2,LS3,LS7,LT1 Custom Camshaft Specialist For custom camshaft help press here.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2018 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 Pat G tuned.
LS1,LS2,LS3,LS7,LT1 Custom Camshaft Specialist For custom camshaft help press here.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
02-25-2014, 12:01 AM
#87
TECH Senior Member
You know guys, I'm getting tired of this "quiet" business. I've ran XER and XFI for years and if installed properly (not just dumped in), paying attention to proper parts and install procedures (not cutting corners at every chance), the valve train in general is quiet. Right pre-load, right swipe valves at correct height etc... the whole shabang.
Most want 500 Hp by just dumping mismatched parts at the cheapest price possible.
IMO, when you mod, spend once and use the right parts without always trying to push the envelope.
All these marketing ploys just to grab a bigger part of the market makes me sick sometimes. IMO and foremost, one should seriously educate oneself before even lifting the hood.
Most want 500 Hp by just dumping mismatched parts at the cheapest price possible.
IMO, when you mod, spend once and use the right parts without always trying to push the envelope.
All these marketing ploys just to grab a bigger part of the market makes me sick sometimes. IMO and foremost, one should seriously educate oneself before even lifting the hood.
02-26-2014, 12:03 AM
#89
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Harvey Crane said this
"The ideal cam profile would raise the valves to full lift instantly, hold them open for a specified duration and then close them instantly. The laws of physics make it impossible to achieve instantaneous valve opening and closing,but recent advancements in design technology have made it possible to open and close the valves with more area under the lift curve. By so doing, engine efficiency is improved because the valves spend less time at very low lift."
Kip do you think he is wrong? I agree there is a point that you could make a lobe so aggressive it is un-useable, but many of guys have went 10s of thousands of miles on 8mm LS stuff using these "too fast" lobes. You need to clarify what exactly are these "too fast lobes". You are making implications that several of the lobes that many here are using fall into that category, is that how you feel? Or, are these "too fast lobes" not actually ones offered for street cars by competitors? Say XE-R, LSL, VooDoo, XFI, EHI, etc. Those are the bar of "fast lobes" for most here, are you calling those lobes all "too fast lobes" and we shouldn't be using those?? Are you declaring right now you have figured out something that they are all overlooking? That is not an attack question, but an honest question.
"The ideal cam profile would raise the valves to full lift instantly, hold them open for a specified duration and then close them instantly. The laws of physics make it impossible to achieve instantaneous valve opening and closing,but recent advancements in design technology have made it possible to open and close the valves with more area under the lift curve. By so doing, engine efficiency is improved because the valves spend less time at very low lift."
Kip do you think he is wrong? I agree there is a point that you could make a lobe so aggressive it is un-useable, but many of guys have went 10s of thousands of miles on 8mm LS stuff using these "too fast" lobes. You need to clarify what exactly are these "too fast lobes". You are making implications that several of the lobes that many here are using fall into that category, is that how you feel? Or, are these "too fast lobes" not actually ones offered for street cars by competitors? Say XE-R, LSL, VooDoo, XFI, EHI, etc. Those are the bar of "fast lobes" for most here, are you calling those lobes all "too fast lobes" and we shouldn't be using those?? Are you declaring right now you have figured out something that they are all overlooking? That is not an attack question, but an honest question.
02-26-2014, 05:03 AM
#90
You know guys, I'm getting tired of this "quiet" business. I've ran XER and XFI for years and if installed properly (not just dumped in), paying attention to proper parts and install procedures (not cutting corners at every chance), the valve train in general is quiet. Right pre-load, right swipe valves at correct height etc... the whole shabang.
Most want 500 Hp by just dumping mismatched parts at the cheapest price possible.
IMO, when you mod, spend once and use the right parts without always trying to push the envelope.
All these marketing ploys just to grab a bigger part of the market makes me sick sometimes. IMO and foremost, one should seriously educate oneself before even lifting the hood.
Most want 500 Hp by just dumping mismatched parts at the cheapest price possible.
IMO, when you mod, spend once and use the right parts without always trying to push the envelope.
All these marketing ploys just to grab a bigger part of the market makes me sick sometimes. IMO and foremost, one should seriously educate oneself before even lifting the hood.
02-26-2014, 05:27 AM
#91
TECH Apprentice
Thread Starter
Harvey Crane said this
"The ideal cam profile would raise the valves to full lift instantly, hold them open for a specified duration and then close them instantly. The laws of physics make it impossible to achieve instantaneous valve opening and closing,but recent advancements in design technology have made it possible to open and close the valves with more area under the lift curve. By so doing, engine efficiency is improved because the valves spend less time at very low lift."
Kip do you think he is wrong? I agree there is a point that you could make a lobe so aggressive it is un-useable, but many of guys have went 10s of thousands of miles on 8mm LS stuff using these "too fast" lobes. You need to clarify what exactly are these "too fast lobes". You are making implications that several of the lobes that many here are using fall into that category, is that how you feel? Or, are these "too fast lobes" not actually ones offered for street cars by competitors? Say XE-R, LSL, VooDoo, XFI, EHI, etc. Those are the bar of "fast lobes" for most here, are you calling those lobes all "too fast lobes" and we shouldn't be using those?? Are you declaring right now you have figured out something that they are all overlooking? That is not an attack question, but an honest question.
"The ideal cam profile would raise the valves to full lift instantly, hold them open for a specified duration and then close them instantly. The laws of physics make it impossible to achieve instantaneous valve opening and closing,but recent advancements in design technology have made it possible to open and close the valves with more area under the lift curve. By so doing, engine efficiency is improved because the valves spend less time at very low lift."
Kip do you think he is wrong? I agree there is a point that you could make a lobe so aggressive it is un-useable, but many of guys have went 10s of thousands of miles on 8mm LS stuff using these "too fast" lobes. You need to clarify what exactly are these "too fast lobes". You are making implications that several of the lobes that many here are using fall into that category, is that how you feel? Or, are these "too fast lobes" not actually ones offered for street cars by competitors? Say XE-R, LSL, VooDoo, XFI, EHI, etc. Those are the bar of "fast lobes" for most here, are you calling those lobes all "too fast lobes" and we shouldn't be using those?? Are you declaring right now you have figured out something that they are all overlooking? That is not an attack question, but an honest question.
OK to answer your question I make lobes for these LS and all engines with HYD lobes that are smooth what that means is they are easy on the valve train. I do not want someone call me and saying to me my new cam is making noise. Next if you call me and order a 230/340 -236/330-112+4 I can make these lobes a thousand different ways with the same duration and lift. I can make them with low .006 and high .200 or higher .006 and lower .200 numbers. So a soft 230 lobe at .006 would be 285 where a hard or fast 230 lobe at .006 would be 279.
The fast lobe 279/230 will make more noise, have a little more vacum at idial make a little more Torque in the mid range and float the valves sooner. The slow lobe 285/230 a little less vacuum at idial a little less Torque in the mid range but will turn more RPMS with out floating the valves and make more HP. I have never had a customer call and say I am so happy with my noisy cam you made for me. We can make lobes faster but still be quit the ones we make for EPS are faster than the ones we make for ourselves.
Let’s also understand another term for FAST lobes as in VELOCITY? OR ACCELERATION?
Another way to look at lobes design is Lobe 1 is fast in the beginning and end and another lobe design can be soft in the beginning and end but be FAST in the middle. I will try to post some valve motion with the soft lobes verses the hard lobes so you can see the difference. I will ad more to this when I post the valve motion.
02-26-2014, 05:33 AM
#92
TECH Apprentice
Thread Starter
I tend to agree as well. I spent a lot of time looking at the pushrods and installed 3/8 double taper pushrods to replace the 5/16" most use. I saw an immediate smoothing of the upper RPM which indicates to me that the pushrods were previously causing some valve train instability. This is with AFR heads, 8019 springs and the 6016 camw ith XE-R lobes. My setup is pretty quiet as well.
02-26-2014, 08:41 AM
#93
Harvey Crane was a early leader in the performance cam after market I met him quit a few times he was the one to start measuring cam lobes @.05 now a standard before that is was SAE @.004 useless. He was one of the first I think to design cam lobes on a computer. So he brought the performance cam industry to a new level. There is something to what he said about valve opening and closing.
OK to answer your question I make lobes for these LS and all engines with HYD lobes that are smooth what that means is they are easy on the valve train. I do not want someone call me and saying to me my new cam is making noise. Next if you call me and order a 230/340 -236/330-112+4 I can make these lobes a thousand different ways with the same duration and lift. I can make them with low .006 and high .200 or higher .006 and lower .200 numbers. So a soft 230 lobe at .006 would be 285 where a hard or fast 230 lobe at .006 would be 279.
The fast lobe 279/230 will make more noise, have a little more vacum at idial make a little more Torque in the mid range and float the valves sooner. The slow lobe 285/230 a little less vacuum at idial a little less Torque in the mid range but will turn more RPMS with out floating the valves and make more HP. I have never had a customer call and say I am so happy with my noisy cam you made for me. We can make lobes faster but still be quit the ones we make for EPS are faster than the ones we make for ourselves.
Let’s also understand another term for FAST lobes as in VELOCITY? OR ACCELERATION?
Another way to look at lobes design is Lobe 1 is fast in the beginning and end and another lobe design can be soft in the beginning and end but be FAST in the middle. I will try to post some valve motion with the soft lobes verses the hard lobes so you can see the difference. I will ad more to this when I post the valve motion.
OK to answer your question I make lobes for these LS and all engines with HYD lobes that are smooth what that means is they are easy on the valve train. I do not want someone call me and saying to me my new cam is making noise. Next if you call me and order a 230/340 -236/330-112+4 I can make these lobes a thousand different ways with the same duration and lift. I can make them with low .006 and high .200 or higher .006 and lower .200 numbers. So a soft 230 lobe at .006 would be 285 where a hard or fast 230 lobe at .006 would be 279.
The fast lobe 279/230 will make more noise, have a little more vacum at idial make a little more Torque in the mid range and float the valves sooner. The slow lobe 285/230 a little less vacuum at idial a little less Torque in the mid range but will turn more RPMS with out floating the valves and make more HP. I have never had a customer call and say I am so happy with my noisy cam you made for me. We can make lobes faster but still be quit the ones we make for EPS are faster than the ones we make for ourselves.
Let’s also understand another term for FAST lobes as in VELOCITY? OR ACCELERATION?
Another way to look at lobes design is Lobe 1 is fast in the beginning and end and another lobe design can be soft in the beginning and end but be FAST in the middle. I will try to post some valve motion with the soft lobes verses the hard lobes so you can see the difference. I will ad more to this when I post the valve motion.
02-26-2014, 09:26 AM
#95
I tend to agree as well. I spent a lot of time looking at the pushrods and installed 3/8 double taper pushrods to replace the 5/16" most use. I saw an immediate smoothing of the upper RPM which indicates to me that the pushrods were previously causing some valve train instability. This is with AFR heads, 8019 springs and the 6016 camw ith XE-R lobes. My setup is pretty quiet as well.
02-26-2014, 11:52 AM
#97
TECH Apprentice
Thread Starter
02-26-2014, 02:45 PM
#98
TECH Apprentice
Thread Starter
Harvey Crane said this
"The ideal cam profile would raise the valves to full lift instantly, hold them open for a specified duration and then close them instantly. The laws of physics make it impossible to achieve instantaneous valve opening and closing,but recent advancements in design technology have made it possible to open and close the valves with more area under the lift curve. By so doing, engine efficiency is improved because the valves spend less time at very low lift."
Kip do you think he is wrong? I agree there is a point that you could make a lobe so aggressive it is un-useable, but many of guys have went 10s of thousands of miles on 8mm LS stuff using these "too fast" lobes. You need to clarify what exactly are these "too fast lobes". You are making implications that several of the lobes that many here are using fall into that category, is that how you feel? Or, are these "too fast lobes" not actually ones offered for street cars by competitors? Say XE-R, LSL, VooDoo, XFI, EHI, etc. Those are the bar of "fast lobes" for most here, are you calling those lobes all "too fast lobes" and we shouldn't be using those?? Are you declaring right now you have figured out something that they are all overlooking? That is not an attack question, but an honest question.
"The ideal cam profile would raise the valves to full lift instantly, hold them open for a specified duration and then close them instantly. The laws of physics make it impossible to achieve instantaneous valve opening and closing,but recent advancements in design technology have made it possible to open and close the valves with more area under the lift curve. By so doing, engine efficiency is improved because the valves spend less time at very low lift."
Kip do you think he is wrong? I agree there is a point that you could make a lobe so aggressive it is un-useable, but many of guys have went 10s of thousands of miles on 8mm LS stuff using these "too fast" lobes. You need to clarify what exactly are these "too fast lobes". You are making implications that several of the lobes that many here are using fall into that category, is that how you feel? Or, are these "too fast lobes" not actually ones offered for street cars by competitors? Say XE-R, LSL, VooDoo, XFI, EHI, etc. Those are the bar of "fast lobes" for most here, are you calling those lobes all "too fast lobes" and we shouldn't be using those?? Are you declaring right now you have figured out something that they are all overlooking? That is not an attack question, but an honest question.
02-26-2014, 02:49 PM
#99
TECH Apprentice
Thread Starter
("too fast" lobes.) One more comment about TOO FAST LOBES they are not to fast they do not have a good ramp from .000 to .01 that is most of the problem.
