a468blown

I am in the middle of building a 440 stroker, LSX block, Callies rotating assembly and PRC 247 cathedral port heads. Im running a little over 600 lift on the cam.

This is my first LS motor so I am at a lost as to what rockers to run. I have been reading about horror stories with rockers on these motors. Everything from poor geometry to catastrophic failures. I was going with Yella terra but I have heard of to many failures. The last thing I want is rocker parts in the oil pan.

Does anyone know of a good rocker with good geometry that wont break and isnt a million dollars. This is strictly a street motor.

96capricemgr

iTrader: (1)

Have you considered PM guides in the heads and stock rockers with trunnion upgrade?

Darkman

iTrader: (2)

Your heads are supposed to be "factory rocker friendly." With a lift of about 0.600 and assuming you don't go overboard on open spring pressure (410 pounds or so) it is going to hard to beat stock rockers with upgraded trunnions.

Once you move away from factory rockers, things get expensive. If you want aftermarket rockers I would look at Crane Gold Race, Jesels, or Comp 1500s. There are less expensive alternatives, but the reliability record of those alternatives runs from mixed to poor.

a468blown

The stock rockers are dependable with the upgrade? Can you achieve a sweep on the valve with stock rockers?

I am really paranoid about poor geometry causing noise or premature wear and even more concerned about loosing an engine due to rocker parts flying around the engine.

I guess the best option is Jesel or comp cam shaft system? My only concern with these is not knowing how they hold up to street driving when your stuck in traffic idling for long periods of time. Does anyone know if they are street friendly?

JakeFusion

iTrader: (7)

The wipe pattern of the GM rocker is very wide because it slides across the valve like a rocking chair on the floor. Given that, it is still more reliable with a trunion upgrade than any of the aluminum roller rockers in a street motor. The added weight of roller rockers, the fatigue factor of aluminum, and the added spring pressures to control the weight are all more detrimental than the scubbing/side-loading of the GM rocker (which is way overplayed).

Aluminum roller rockers have their place - solid roller setups, race setups, and other combos where everything is very light, the spring pressures are not extreme, and the setup is routinely inspected. I would never recommend aluminum roller rockers as a set it and forget it piece in a street motor. Aluminum fatigues, so they are not designed to last under those circumstances like a steel bodied rocker.

If you are okay with higher maintenance, I would advise you to be careful with which roller rockers you choose. Since you need a lot more spring pressure for a given lobe, because of weight, you have to ensure the rocker can withstand the added stress. That means stepping up and away from the $400-500 roller rockers you see everyone buying here and getting into the higher dollar T&D/Jesel stuff.

a468blown

Thanks Jake, your advise makes a lot of sense. Sometimes we install parts that make more problems than they are worth.

It looks like stock rockers with the upgrade is the way to go unless you are building a hardcore race engine.

JakeFusion

iTrader: (7)

If you have bronze guides, the advice from the head porters are to go roller rockers. Again, bronze guides aren't necessary for a mainly street motor, so it all leads you down a rabbit hole. If your heads have bronze guides, the side loading of the stock rockers can cause problems. But so can an improperly setup roller rocker. Both could toast the valve guides in less than 10k miles.

96capricemgr

iTrader: (1)

Which brings us back to my first reply about PM guides which some vendors will put in aftermarket heads as an upgrade that is a LOT cheaper than buying good roller rockers.

Fry_

TSP claims to use a more durable bronze guide than most so it is compatible with stock rockers. Also sense the OP may be new to performance motors it's worth mentioning that valve springs are a maintenance item that should be removed and checked for adequate pressure every 10,000 miles and changed regardless of pressure at 30-50,000 miles depending on who you ask. Also that motor is likely to be built with 2618 alloy pistons which will require a looser piston to wall clearance than a production motor and will likely need to be torn down and "freshened up" buy 30-60,000 miles because of it. I know I'm pretty far off from the original topic but the longevity of a motor built with 2618 alloy pistons vs 4032 alloy or cast pistons isn't mentioned very often and people don't find out about it till there motor starts using oil when they expected it to run for 100,000 miles.

dr_whigham

iTrader: (49)

Fry is actually right. I know of at least two head companies, and two big time porters that HIGHLY recommend against the use of PM guides bc of the "type" of bronze guides they use. Key word: type

Their explanation is simple. With the bronze they're using, *if* you get wear, it wears much slower. But once the PM starts to wear, it wears fast.

Yes, I'm regurgitating information. I'll make that clear now. But that's what I've been told by more than enough reputable porters / manufacturers.

JakeFusion

iTrader: (7)

That's a good point.

But I've not seen much in the way of PM guides failing. PM guides seem to show little to no wear with decent street lobes and good oil for many miles.

Performance engines are a wear item. 2618 alloy pistons, valve springs, oil changes. Everything is much more frequent. But with regular maintenance (which may include new springs or new rings/hone), performance motors can be plenty reliable.

Fry_

Thats very true but I don't think everyone knows this till it's to late. Valve springs being a maintenance item is something that's mentioned fairly often, but having to pull your motor for a ring and bearing job every 30-60,000 miles if you have a motor with 2618 alloy pistons isn't. I can only think of it being brought up twice by other members in the 3 years I've been on this board.

JakeFusion

iTrader: (7)

I talk about it a lot. I would still do a 2618 piston vs a 4032 if given the choice. But a 4032 is better for a true street engine because the piston to wall clearance can be much tighter and the alloy is still a step up from a hyper - but they do shatter even with detonation, so it's kind of what the end goal really is all about. And Mahle makes a pretty decent 4032 piston with nice skirts and a ring package.

Paul Bell

iTrader: (9)

"Who make the best rockers"

Crower shaft rockers with the needle bearing tip option is the best and strongest rocker on the market for these engines.

However, at +$1,200.00 per set and the reasons listed by everybody else above, they're not needed for most applications.