hydrolic roller lifters vs solid roller lifters
hydrolic roller lifters vs solid roller lifters Is there a big difference between them? I read an article where it made an 8hp difference between two engines having the same setup other than the lifters. The one with the solid rollers made the 8hp more.
Is there a down side to using solid rollers?
Will I need adjustable rockers? If so how often do I need to adjust them?
Is there a down side to using solid rollers?
Will I need adjustable rockers? If so how often do I need to adjust them?
I believe there is some good power in solid lifters alone in certain applications, however, the benefit of solid lifters is typically the ability to sustain higher RPM. That can be worth a hell of a lot more than 8hp.
The advantages to solid roller lifters is that they have much better valvetrain stability at higher rpms. Mechanical lifters can take the sometimes super high valve spring pressure associated with high rpms.
The down sides are the way they are oiled. Solids are oiled by "splash oiling". This means there is no direct source of oil for the lifter, it is lubricated by oil moving around. At higher rpm this is fine, but at lower rpms and for extended idling they become unhappy. Some companies make a mechanical non-roller lifters with a small hole burned in the lifter face to help a little with this.
If you read the articles on DragWeek or other competitions that hairy race cars with license plates compete at, many are often plagued with fragged roller lifters. Some of this is from the high spring pressure, low rpm, and increased heat from lack of oiling doing a job on them.
I can only comment on my own personal experience and that of my friends with their cars on setting lash. My combo was a high rpm Mopar big block with over 800lbs of spring pressure. In 2 1/2 yrs of exhibition racing the car, the lash only changed when I changed it myself.
IMHO, mechanical rollers are the only way to go for a drag car. For street strip, something has to be pretty radical to require valvetrain actions a modern day hydraulic roller cant provide.
The down sides are the way they are oiled. Solids are oiled by "splash oiling". This means there is no direct source of oil for the lifter, it is lubricated by oil moving around. At higher rpm this is fine, but at lower rpms and for extended idling they become unhappy. Some companies make a mechanical non-roller lifters with a small hole burned in the lifter face to help a little with this.
If you read the articles on DragWeek or other competitions that hairy race cars with license plates compete at, many are often plagued with fragged roller lifters. Some of this is from the high spring pressure, low rpm, and increased heat from lack of oiling doing a job on them.
I can only comment on my own personal experience and that of my friends with their cars on setting lash. My combo was a high rpm Mopar big block with over 800lbs of spring pressure. In 2 1/2 yrs of exhibition racing the car, the lash only changed when I changed it myself.
IMHO, mechanical rollers are the only way to go for a drag car. For street strip, something has to be pretty radical to require valvetrain actions a modern day hydraulic roller cant provide.
You can probably do what you want with hydraulic lifters. If you're going big CID, huge nasty = cam, and an adjustable, expensive valvetrain, then solid is the way to go to get more RPM and more power out of the motor. On an otherwise stock LS1, it's probably not the best route.
I will say I have seen some solid roller 346s make 550rwhp. They spun crazy RPMs and had like 280 duration cams in them. Not at all streetable, but they flew like hell down the track.
I will say I have seen some solid roller 346s make 550rwhp. They spun crazy RPMs and had like 280 duration cams in them. Not at all streetable, but they flew like hell down the track.
Love my solid roller almost daily street driven 347. Throttle response is crisp and rpm is feels almost limitless. I've had it to 7500 rpm and still pulling. Only drawback is cold drivability but it warms up fast.
I running a hydraulic cam with a solid roller profile, Martin at Tick designed the camshaft 718"/656"-257/273-116LSA-112CL , But you will need a valve train to handle it. Im running the Jesel Mohawks Shaft Mounted roller rocker arms 1.80"int.-1.75"exh. ratio, Morel 5850-HLT link bar lifters , Manton Custom pushrods 7.202"L x .140"wall x 3/8"dia. PAC valve springs 1208X -.750" lift , On AFR Mongoose 245cc heads 2.165"int x 1.60"exh valves 67cc.
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On The Tree
Joined: May 2011
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The problem with solid rollers (because of the application, it's not inherent to just solid rollers), especially with big block chevy's, is idling with heavy valve springs and lower oil pressures. In these conditions, the bearing is being lubed by mostly splash oiling, which results to bearing failures. This is cured by supplying pressurized oil to the bearings via a cross hole to the "oil band" on the lifter.
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Launching!
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 205
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From: Valencia Ca
Usually no real issues or very seldom wtih SBC stuff esp with a light valvetrain;avg SR with say 200-210 or so on the seat can live a long time
They have bushed rollers out now that eliminate the needle bearings which is a huge step forward. As noted above lots of the failures you read about are in BBC with heavy valvetrains and that funky angle on the pushrod.
Know a # of guys that DD them for many miles w/0 issues.
Been running one for yrs and absolutely love it it is seamless like a 4 banger dohc just keeps wanting to rev freely hard to explain.
If you are turning some decent rpm thats imo where a solid is more dependable than a hydraulic;if you have the cyl head and intake to support it a huge plus
If youre only going to spin an LSx just over 6k 6500 the gains will be there just not as great. More rpm way more gains!!You want big power theres nothing like solid roller!! Let it warm up some dont go starting it up cold and hammering on it til its warm
. Like Joe Sherman says, more ya go the more youll get.
Youll want to use premium quality valvetrain pieces....rockers pushrods lifters, cheaping out there can costya. :
They have bushed rollers out now that eliminate the needle bearings which is a huge step forward. As noted above lots of the failures you read about are in BBC with heavy valvetrains and that funky angle on the pushrod.
Know a # of guys that DD them for many miles w/0 issues.
Been running one for yrs and absolutely love it it is seamless like a 4 banger dohc just keeps wanting to rev freely hard to explain.
If you are turning some decent rpm thats imo where a solid is more dependable than a hydraulic;if you have the cyl head and intake to support it a huge plus
If youre only going to spin an LSx just over 6k 6500 the gains will be there just not as great. More rpm way more gains!!You want big power theres nothing like solid roller!! Let it warm up some dont go starting it up cold and hammering on it til its warm
. Like Joe Sherman says, more ya go the more youll get.
Youll want to use premium quality valvetrain pieces....rockers pushrods lifters, cheaping out there can costya. :
Last edited by cuisinartvette; Jul 24, 2014 at 05:57 PM.
Solid roller lifters are still being supplied pressurized oil from the lifter oil galley, by the feed hole in the oil band on the lifter body. Without this, you would burn up a set of rocker arms rather quickly as well as **** off your valve springs.
The problem with solid rollers (because of the application, it's not inherent to just solid rollers), especially with big block chevy's, is idling with heavy valve springs and lower oil pressures. In these conditions, the bearing is being lubed by mostly splash oiling, which results to bearing failures. This is cured by supplying pressurized oil to the bearings via a cross hole to the "oil band" on the lifter.
The problem with solid rollers (because of the application, it's not inherent to just solid rollers), especially with big block chevy's, is idling with heavy valve springs and lower oil pressures. In these conditions, the bearing is being lubed by mostly splash oiling, which results to bearing failures. This is cured by supplying pressurized oil to the bearings via a cross hole to the "oil band" on the lifter.
The solid roller spring pressure issue has been resolved with cam motions low lash lobe. These cams are running over 7500 rpm plus with less than 400 lbs spring pressure over the nose. I am running a set of Brian tooley platinum double springs with steel retainers and have experienced no valve float.
I think for most guys it comes down to cost. Good adjustable rockers don't come cheap.
With the correct lobe choice, spring pressure and using stock rockers a LS valve train can be turned 7500 rpm without issues. We recently had a F1X supercharged 388 with a .630" lift hydraulic roller cam using our Platinum springs shimmed .030" make almost 1600 hp at 7500 rpm. The car just ran 4.80's in the 1/8 mile and they think it will go 4.70's.
With the correct lobe choice, spring pressure and using stock rockers a LS valve train can be turned 7500 rpm without issues. We recently had a F1X supercharged 388 with a .630" lift hydraulic roller cam using our Platinum springs shimmed .030" make almost 1600 hp at 7500 rpm. The car just ran 4.80's in the 1/8 mile and they think it will go 4.70's.
