Shortblock Assembly-Zero thrust clearance issues. Help
Well I said F-it and bought a set of Clevite;s Coated main bearings. 2199hk I believe is the P/N.
I set them in, torqued them down and now have less main clearance. Between .0016" to .0019". I didn't even get to thrust clearance at this point.
I don't know what to do now.
I would have sanded the KING's but it seems that the top half of the shell is perfect with main clearance and thrust at .0055", and the bottom shell is the problem with slightly less than half of the other.
I set them in, torqued them down and now have less main clearance. Between .0016" to .0019". I didn't even get to thrust clearance at this point.
I don't know what to do now.
I would have sanded the KING's but it seems that the top half of the shell is perfect with main clearance and thrust at .0055", and the bottom shell is the problem with slightly less than half of the other.
Last edited by BlwnLs1GTO; Aug 2, 2014 at 04:23 PM.
Well, I should have ordered the oversized bearings in the first place. The guy at Summit said these particular bearings are for DECREASING oil clearance, rather than increasing it. So I went with the Clevite STD, the ones he advised.
After more research, I'm going to see if they'll take these back and let me pay the difference for the MS2199HXK set. They'll increase the clearance to where I want it at.
After more research, I'm going to see if they'll take these back and let me pay the difference for the MS2199HXK set. They'll increase the clearance to where I want it at.
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,343
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From: Katy, TX
My iron block build used MS-2199HX bearings and it only had 0.003" of thrust clearance.
If you're not happy with that, don't be afraid to remove some material to open up the clearance. You can use a granite cutting board as a flat surface.
If you're not happy with that, don't be afraid to remove some material to open up the clearance. You can use a granite cutting board as a flat surface.
This is why I proposed that you measure and assess what's going on before buying/changing anything. This would save you time, money, & aggravation. I'm not sure if you can sand that much material off of a bearing. The babbit layer is less than one thou thick on the journal surface but I do not know how thick it is on the thrust surface.
This is why I proposed that you measure and assess what's going on before buying/changing anything. This would save you time, money, & aggravation. I'm not sure if you can sand that much material off of a bearing. The babbit layer is less than one thou thick on the journal surface but I do not know how thick it is on the thrust surface.
What a learning experience...
I didn't have much time yesterday as I threw my back out somehow. I feel like a 100 year old man today.
But I did install the main bearings, torqued them down and brought out the Mic and Dial Bore Gauge.
I started with #1, and ended there due to this; total oil clearance from 12-oclock to 6'oclock is .003. But once I start rotating to about 2 and 8'oclock, the clearance starts to go up. By the time I'm at almost horizontal while still on each bearing, I'm getting readings of -006 at best! Does the same at 10 to 4'oclock. As if the bearings are shaped like a football.
And yes, I am measuring from outside the oil grooves as well as the tabs. I'm at a loss now.
I didn't have much time yesterday as I threw my back out somehow. I feel like a 100 year old man today.
But I did install the main bearings, torqued them down and brought out the Mic and Dial Bore Gauge.
I started with #1, and ended there due to this; total oil clearance from 12-oclock to 6'oclock is .003. But once I start rotating to about 2 and 8'oclock, the clearance starts to go up. By the time I'm at almost horizontal while still on each bearing, I'm getting readings of -006 at best! Does the same at 10 to 4'oclock. As if the bearings are shaped like a football.
And yes, I am measuring from outside the oil grooves as well as the tabs. I'm at a loss now.
The bearings are shaped like a football inside. The clearance should be checked vertically. I have seen the thrust adjusted that way but it's usually a sign of another issue and this is the band aid fix.
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Verdad Gallardo What a learning experience...
I didn't have much time yesterday as I threw my back out somehow. I feel like a 100 year old man today.
But I did install the main bearings, torqued them down and brought out the Mic and Dial Bore Gauge.
I started with #1, and ended there due to this; total oil clearance from 12-oclock to 6'oclock is .003. But once I start rotating to about 2 and 8'oclock, the clearance starts to go up. By the time I'm at almost horizontal while still on each bearing, I'm getting readings of -006 at best! Does the same at 10 to 4'oclock. As if the bearings are shaped like a football.
And yes, I am measuring from outside the oil grooves as well as the tabs. I'm at a loss now.
I didn't have much time yesterday as I threw my back out somehow. I feel like a 100 year old man today.
But I did install the main bearings, torqued them down and brought out the Mic and Dial Bore Gauge.
I started with #1, and ended there due to this; total oil clearance from 12-oclock to 6'oclock is .003. But once I start rotating to about 2 and 8'oclock, the clearance starts to go up. By the time I'm at almost horizontal while still on each bearing, I'm getting readings of -006 at best! Does the same at 10 to 4'oclock. As if the bearings are shaped like a football.
And yes, I am measuring from outside the oil grooves as well as the tabs. I'm at a loss now.
The problem is in the way the block was machined
The cap was cut wrong(crooked) and thus leaning to one side causing your end play to be off like that,depending on whad side it leans to is what side you unfortunately have to sand on
There are somtimes burrs on the parting lines on the cap where the bearing thrust surface sits and can hold the bearing shell in place not allowing it to move
End play should be .004-.006 and is set by smacking the crank on the snout first then the back flange
The bearings are eccentrical and there should be a clerance differance of some from the vertical clerance but if your thrust is off like that i would start to check the housing bore eccentricity
The cap was cut wrong(crooked) and thus leaning to one side causing your end play to be off like that,depending on whad side it leans to is what side you unfortunately have to sand on
There are somtimes burrs on the parting lines on the cap where the bearing thrust surface sits and can hold the bearing shell in place not allowing it to move
End play should be .004-.006 and is set by smacking the crank on the snout first then the back flange
The bearings are eccentrical and there should be a clerance differance of some from the vertical clerance but if your thrust is off like that i would start to check the housing bore eccentricity
Last edited by Ari G; Aug 5, 2014 at 11:52 AM.
They supposedly line honed the main bores with the ARP Studs.
I had some time last night to mess around. All of the main clearances are good.
The problem is Thrust. The #3. Main cap is not aligning straight with the top main. It's pushing the bottom cap towards the rear of the block. Which leaves a slight overlap of the thrust surface on the cap towards the rear of block. Because of that, I have the top half of the thrust surface offset towards the Front of the block.
It's definitely the cap, not the bearings being crushed, or something caused by a burr etc...
My first instinct says to sand each half of each shell to try and get them aligned a little better. But what about the Main journal surface?
I don't know what to do from here. Once again, thanks for your help, guys.
I had some time last night to mess around. All of the main clearances are good.
The problem is Thrust. The #3. Main cap is not aligning straight with the top main. It's pushing the bottom cap towards the rear of the block. Which leaves a slight overlap of the thrust surface on the cap towards the rear of block. Because of that, I have the top half of the thrust surface offset towards the Front of the block.
It's definitely the cap, not the bearings being crushed, or something caused by a burr etc...
My first instinct says to sand each half of each shell to try and get them aligned a little better. But what about the Main journal surface?
I don't know what to do from here. Once again, thanks for your help, guys.
The caps can move a little. Loosen the bolts and see if you can straighten it. If it's honed incorrectly you may need a new cap. The side walls normally keep them straight. How do your side walls look?
It's finished. Thanks for all of the help.
I was able to move the thrust cap forward and it opened up the clearance right on at .0055".
Rod journals went perfectly smooth between .0025-.0028" between all 8.
I was able to move the thrust cap forward and it opened up the clearance right on at .0055".
Rod journals went perfectly smooth between .0025-.0028" between all 8.
