New cam core by comp?
12-02-2014, 01:57 PM
#21
TECH Fanatic
Do you think it's possible Comp has switched to 8620 cores while they figure out some of the QC problems they've had recently? I know wouldn't buy a Comp cam directly from Comp or Summit, I would buy one from a trusted vendor on here knowing if I was one of the few unlucky people they would take care of me.
12-02-2014, 03:59 PM
#22
Do you think it's possible Comp has switched to 8620 cores while they figure out some of the QC problems they've had recently? I know wouldn't buy a Comp cam directly from Comp or Summit, I would buy one from a trusted vendor on here knowing if I was one of the few unlucky people they would take care of me.
I generally don't ask for anything unless I see a horrible defect in any aftermarket part. I have used comp and crane cams both over. 20 years without issue.
Have you ever had comp give a bad deal or not make something right for you ?
12-02-2014, 04:44 PM
#23
The camshaft that I posted the picture of was not specified as a 8620 core when it was ordered. From time to time when Comp has 8620 cores that are close to the desired camshaft profile they will use them.
Comp is still using 5160 cores and as Kip mentioned Cam Motion also offers them as well.
The cam I have shown is considered a low volume core. Comp had a 8620 core that was very close to the desired profile and was able to utilize the 8620 core instead of a 5160 core.
I have received other solid roller camshafts from Comp that were considered low volume cores that were also sent out as 8620 cores, but didn't specifically ask for a 8620 core. The price I quoted regarding the Comp 8620 cores directly relate to solid roller camshafts. The few times I have tried to order a 8620 hydraulic camshaft from Comp they didn't have a roughed in core that was close enough to the desired profile. From what I'm told, 8620 cores need to be closer in spec to the desired cam profile when ground.
The next step up in material is 9310. Then you get into tool steel cores like PM M4 that Nascar uses. The PM M4 tool steel cores can run into the 2,000 dollar range!
Comp is still using 5160 cores and as Kip mentioned Cam Motion also offers them as well.
The cam I have shown is considered a low volume core. Comp had a 8620 core that was very close to the desired profile and was able to utilize the 8620 core instead of a 5160 core.
I have received other solid roller camshafts from Comp that were considered low volume cores that were also sent out as 8620 cores, but didn't specifically ask for a 8620 core. The price I quoted regarding the Comp 8620 cores directly relate to solid roller camshafts. The few times I have tried to order a 8620 hydraulic camshaft from Comp they didn't have a roughed in core that was close enough to the desired profile. From what I'm told, 8620 cores need to be closer in spec to the desired cam profile when ground.
The next step up in material is 9310. Then you get into tool steel cores like PM M4 that Nascar uses. The PM M4 tool steel cores can run into the 2,000 dollar range!
12-03-2014, 12:34 PM
#25
I can use Cam Motion for anything. I can have Kip grind any of our current shelf camshafts on his cores, I can have Kip grind any custom cam on his cores.
It pretty much works like this. If you want a Tick Performance specified cam grind ground on a Cam Motion core they're 460 dollars shipped to any of the 48 states. I believe Kip charges roughly the same amount after shipping, but he can correct me if I am wrong.
Kip is working on some spreadsheets for our web/computer guy to put on our website regarding pricing. Soon you'll have the option to choose between a Comp core and a Cam Motion core on our website.
We are not moving away from Comp as we have still yet to personally install a Comp camshaft that has ever given us a single issue. We've had 4 Comp cams out of over just about 3000 sold that whined which works out to .001%.
I do recognize the quality though that Kip puts into his product and I highly respect that. I wanted to receive results from a fair amount of the camshafts I ordered from Kip before we put the option to choose a CM camshaft on our website. I can say that every result I've received from any of the CM cams I've designed and ground have been exceptional.
Remember all the lobe designs that I use when Kip grinds our camshafts are my own proprietary designs. I've asked Kip's opinion many times and he really likes what I have come up with and they get his seal of "smooth" approval....lol.
Hope this helps.
It pretty much works like this. If you want a Tick Performance specified cam grind ground on a Cam Motion core they're 460 dollars shipped to any of the 48 states. I believe Kip charges roughly the same amount after shipping, but he can correct me if I am wrong.
Kip is working on some spreadsheets for our web/computer guy to put on our website regarding pricing. Soon you'll have the option to choose between a Comp core and a Cam Motion core on our website.
We are not moving away from Comp as we have still yet to personally install a Comp camshaft that has ever given us a single issue. We've had 4 Comp cams out of over just about 3000 sold that whined which works out to .001%.
I do recognize the quality though that Kip puts into his product and I highly respect that. I wanted to receive results from a fair amount of the camshafts I ordered from Kip before we put the option to choose a CM camshaft on our website. I can say that every result I've received from any of the CM cams I've designed and ground have been exceptional.
Remember all the lobe designs that I use when Kip grinds our camshafts are my own proprietary designs. I've asked Kip's opinion many times and he really likes what I have come up with and they get his seal of "smooth" approval....lol.
Hope this helps.
12-03-2014, 01:04 PM
#26
So any cam you do up for a customer, that's ground through Cam Motion, is going to be on your own proprietary lobes? So, if someone wanted a SNS Torque Max Stage 3, but ground through Cam Motion, it would be on a proprietary lobe, as opposed to if the SNS Torque Max Stage 3 was ground through Comp, using standard XFI, LSL, etc. lobes? If what I'm saying is correct (likely not), what would the performance difference be between the two cams? Just trying to wrap my head around it all.
12-03-2014, 05:32 PM
#29
So any cam you do up for a customer, that's ground through Cam Motion, is going to be on your own proprietary lobes? So, if someone wanted a SNS Torque Max Stage 3, but ground through Cam Motion, it would be on a proprietary lobe, as opposed to if the SNS Torque Max Stage 3 was ground through Comp, using standard XFI, LSL, etc. lobes? If what I'm saying is correct (likely not), what would the performance difference be between the two cams? Just trying to wrap my head around it all.
When I grind a cam with Comp I may use a catalog lobe, I may use one of the lobes I designed. With Cam Motion there is no catalog. Either Kip designs it, or you can yourself. I just give Kip a lot more input as to what I want based on my customer's needs and my data than you would if you ordered a cam off Cam Motion's website and only specified @.050 duration and lobe lift.
If I use a catalog lobe on some grinds or a lobe that I designed on other grinds doesn't make one or the other better, it just makes it right for the application it's being used in.
I have had a lot of people come to me and say that they want me to spec their camshaft, but want a Cam Motion grind. Kip reached out to me almost a year ago and asked if I would like to become a dealer for Cam Motion. I obliged because I always want to satisfy a customer's wants and if a customer wants me to design his cam, but put it on a different companies camshaft I have no problem with that. You should always try to meet customer's needs and wants no matter what. If it's doable, it should be done for the customer.
I will say I have a Comp camshaft in my own personal engine and I have no issues with it whatsoever. It will stay in there until it ever gives me a reason to remove it. Either by necessity or because I want to try something else to gain more performance.
Last edited by Sales@Tick; 12-03-2014 at 05:38 PM.
12-03-2014, 06:10 PM
#31
I haven't been on here much lately. I have found that not posting on message boards or on forums makes my life a lot easier. It seems some people just want to argue and/or belittle others for their own amusement or because they feel they're doing something good for the community by calling someone else out.
I don't have time for it anymore. I do still love to share when and where I can and will always continue to do so, just not at the frequency I once did.
12-05-2014, 12:53 AM
#33
Yeah, I agree. For those that have not at least talked cam tech w/Martin, you have no idea how energized he is about the topic. The cam in my car now was done by him. It worked out really well until the lifters gave it up w/the high spring tension.
BTW, I'm starting to get the idea these TFS heads like to be hit real fast with lift, very early in the lobe. A bit more exhaust lobe duration keeps the flow moving up top. My current cam above represents this well. If it doesn't fit, Martin better be ready to cut another one.
BTW, I'm starting to get the idea these TFS heads like to be hit real fast with lift, very early in the lobe. A bit more exhaust lobe duration keeps the flow moving up top. My current cam above represents this well. If it doesn't fit, Martin better be ready to cut another one.
