Cam Warranty?
6 months on material and craftsmanship at the most with proof of good quality oil used. More if they buy the lifter from you. Offering a warrantee will open you up to claims based on improper installation, wrong supporting components and lack of proper maintenance.
Its all in the wording.
Its all in the wording.
Time based only and only with complete kit. Someone using the wrong springs can wipe a cam. Also the pushrods should only be shipped after measuring.
This gives the vendor best chance of covering only actual product problems not bad combos.
This gives the vendor best chance of covering only actual product problems not bad combos.
I agree, I wouldn't expect a warranty unless the cam is proven to be out of spec or traceable to bad material.
defeats the whole purpose IMO, an LS style cam isn't going to fail immediately or shortly after break in like an old school SBC cam
also you typically don't order a cam and install it immediately, usually parts are gathered and if not doing the install yourself an appointment will be made with a shop, my cam motion cam is still sitting on my work bench because the heads aren't back from the machine shop yet...been there for a month and could be another
also you typically don't order a cam and install it immediately, usually parts are gathered and if not doing the install yourself an appointment will be made with a shop, my cam motion cam is still sitting on my work bench because the heads aren't back from the machine shop yet...been there for a month and could be another
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Joined: Aug 2007
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From: Turnin' Wrenches Infractions: 005
Even as an end user only I agree with this. It is simply not realistic to warranty every cam that has an issue 6 months down the road, bc there are an exponential number of factors that could have cause it. Making good faith on some at your discretion is certainly a viable option but not locking it in stone as an across the board. There are too many variables you can't control.
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Verdad Gallardo IMO these things should be handled at the vendors discretion, not a stated warranty policy.
BUT based on who posted the question Kip is actively looking to come up with a policy so I tossed my two cents in based on that factor.
Mileage based doesn't work because he doesn't see the car.
Warranty on less than a full kit open him up to liability for other vendors bad parts or miss matches.
A time based warranty on full kits is more than anyone else offers as most vendors just handle things at their discretion.
If someone claims to have left a cam sit on a shelf for 6 months before using it then Kip would still have the option to warranty it at his discretion just as everyone does now. But if you put a mileage number on it you will have abuse. Maybe a mileage with time cap could work but at that with having to trust folks since he never saw the car why bother just keep it to time.
BUT based on who posted the question Kip is actively looking to come up with a policy so I tossed my two cents in based on that factor.
Mileage based doesn't work because he doesn't see the car.
Warranty on less than a full kit open him up to liability for other vendors bad parts or miss matches.
A time based warranty on full kits is more than anyone else offers as most vendors just handle things at their discretion.
If someone claims to have left a cam sit on a shelf for 6 months before using it then Kip would still have the option to warranty it at his discretion just as everyone does now. But if you put a mileage number on it you will have abuse. Maybe a mileage with time cap could work but at that with having to trust folks since he never saw the car why bother just keep it to time.
The best Warranty in the industry would be meaningless if the quality is crap!
A good example imo is Hyundai cars, great warranty , but crap.
IMO, I think Cam Motion already has the most important part (quality) covered, so you don't really need a fancy warranty.
Most people just want a high quality, reliable product. So, just make the warranty at least on average for the industry, but still slightly better than your closest competitor.
A good example imo is Hyundai cars, great warranty , but crap.
IMO, I think Cam Motion already has the most important part (quality) covered, so you don't really need a fancy warranty.
Most people just want a high quality, reliable product. So, just make the warranty at least on average for the industry, but still slightly better than your closest competitor.
Last edited by 99Bluz28; Feb 5, 2015 at 07:35 PM.
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 24,241
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From: Turnin' Wrenches Infractions: 005
Have you ever owned a hyundai? I have. It made **** for power but was reliable, good on gas, cheap, and super easy to work on. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
So, go smoke it yourself .
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Joined: Feb 2007
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From: Boston, MA
It seems hard to come up with a written warranty for something like a cam, unless you set limitations:
For example, suppose you need a new furnace for your house: most of the time they're only available to professionals of the trade, and the warranty is only valid if installed by a licensed pro....
So you could mandate a warranty is only good if "installed by an ASE certified mechanic" or something along those lines, but that only covers you for so much.... And would tick off a lot of the weekend warriors.
Maybe, instead of a "warranty" it'd be easier to provide a "guarantee": where you stand behind your product for the entire life of it (nobody can prove how many miles are on it..... Or if they're hard miles....). Then you can take products back and replace them if you feel it was a craftsmanship issue. Or maybe even offer some sort of 50/50 offer (hey, it doesn't look like this cam is junk because of a quality issue, but we're willing to grind you a new one for this cost, vs full price). At least this way you have your discretion to back you up.
At the same time, you'd probably want to somehow include a serial number orot number into each grind (if possible, or if not already common practice) just to keep track of everything.
For example, suppose you need a new furnace for your house: most of the time they're only available to professionals of the trade, and the warranty is only valid if installed by a licensed pro....
So you could mandate a warranty is only good if "installed by an ASE certified mechanic" or something along those lines, but that only covers you for so much.... And would tick off a lot of the weekend warriors.
Maybe, instead of a "warranty" it'd be easier to provide a "guarantee": where you stand behind your product for the entire life of it (nobody can prove how many miles are on it..... Or if they're hard miles....). Then you can take products back and replace them if you feel it was a craftsmanship issue. Or maybe even offer some sort of 50/50 offer (hey, it doesn't look like this cam is junk because of a quality issue, but we're willing to grind you a new one for this cost, vs full price). At least this way you have your discretion to back you up.
At the same time, you'd probably want to somehow include a serial number orot number into each grind (if possible, or if not already common practice) just to keep track of everything.
As stated, WAAAAY too many variables. I personally think your cores have absolutely nothing to worry about to begin with. Period.
But again, too many variables. How was it installed? By whom? What spring pressures? We're the PR's beating the cam (among other things) bc of inadequate spring pressure? Was a tooth or two off bc it went in for to dot? Quality oil? Sufficient oil level? Oil temp? Oil AGE? What else in the engine might have let go to contribute to the cause?
Just way too much out there to do anything like this.
The product speaks for itself, IMHO.
But again, too many variables. How was it installed? By whom? What spring pressures? We're the PR's beating the cam (among other things) bc of inadequate spring pressure? Was a tooth or two off bc it went in for to dot? Quality oil? Sufficient oil level? Oil temp? Oil AGE? What else in the engine might have let go to contribute to the cause?
Just way too much out there to do anything like this.
The product speaks for itself, IMHO.
Why would you want to offer a warranty. Just offer a good product and you don't need a warranty. If you don't have a good product, no need for a warranty as you won't be around very long to back it anyways.
Go with a stated X months from purchase, X year on kits, + extended if installed by a "factory qualified" shop and stick to it hard. reap the benefits that no one else dares to go after because you have better quality widgets.
A company I was involved with did this in a totally unrelated industry. Initially warranties were handled on a "do I know you?" basis. The company actually termed them "cries" in internal memos. Holy **** talk about crapping on your potential customer base. It was a hard steer to get them to change course, but when they did customers responded. People will spend money with folks they can trust.
It's hard enough to get a custy to buy your product once. If he has a bad experience whether is due to an actual defect issue or he just F'd up installing it, if you take care of him you got a guy thats gonna keep buying widgets. Leave his *** in the breeze and he's gonna turn off ten more possible customers. That's just how it is in this internet age.
I don't think you will have much issue with a warranty of some sort for two reasons: you have a high quality product and you have knowledgable people seeking it out. Once you reach CC level of stick sales, and QC becomes an issue..well thats another story…maybe W.E. Demming can help you out with that level of production.
my .02
A company I was involved with did this in a totally unrelated industry. Initially warranties were handled on a "do I know you?" basis. The company actually termed them "cries" in internal memos. Holy **** talk about crapping on your potential customer base. It was a hard steer to get them to change course, but when they did customers responded. People will spend money with folks they can trust.
It's hard enough to get a custy to buy your product once. If he has a bad experience whether is due to an actual defect issue or he just F'd up installing it, if you take care of him you got a guy thats gonna keep buying widgets. Leave his *** in the breeze and he's gonna turn off ten more possible customers. That's just how it is in this internet age.
I don't think you will have much issue with a warranty of some sort for two reasons: you have a high quality product and you have knowledgable people seeking it out. Once you reach CC level of stick sales, and QC becomes an issue..well thats another story…maybe W.E. Demming can help you out with that level of production.
my .02
also there's a ton of ways to "warranty" a product and not lose a bunch of margin.
if you get a widget back that's obviously due to a poor install, offer a "race replacement" at cost+10%. Or a "trade-up" program when he can get into full kit (thus fixing all his problems) for 20% off MSRP
if you get a widget back that's obviously due to a poor install, offer a "race replacement" at cost+10%. Or a "trade-up" program when he can get into full kit (thus fixing all his problems) for 20% off MSRP
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If a person buys ONLY a cam, NO WARRANTY. As I'm sure you know, a cam may take a serious beating from worn lifters, weak springs, and who knows which pushrods and preload setup. Lets not forget fresh oil and filter and if the brainchild tuner raised the rev limit to 8500rpm on a stock motor.
I would only expect that its ground to what I asked for and not so soft a stiff set of valve springs and lifters squash it.
I would only expect that its ground to what I asked for and not so soft a stiff set of valve springs and lifters squash it.