Darth_V8r

iTrader: (4)

It's going to come down to me or unit it looks like

unit

I'm close guys - Monday the 24th. at 10:30 AM.

Darth_V8r

iTrader: (4)

which time zone?

tadams72

Awesome. Still waiting on pushrods here. Get those in and I'll finish buttoning up the top of the motor then start sliding it into place. In is one thing, when are you guys going to be on the dyno for the tune? That's what I am waiting for!

Exidous

iTrader: (11)

Everything on my car is together minus pushrods and rockers. I'll even be able to use my old tune to get me in the ball park. Shame there is no dyno nearby. I really need to learn dutch. Lol

unit

Eastern time - I'd put it on the dyno sooner but my tuner is booked solid until the 24th.

JakeFusion

iTrader: (7)

Tony, I have a question.

Let's say someone is building a 347cid built motor, aiming for around 9.8:1 CR and is looking to run an F-1D Procharger @ 15-16psi for 800+rwhp on 93 with methanol. Besides the thicker deck surface, how does the efficient head of a 220 compare to say a ported LS6 head on the blower motor? I never really see much discussion around such a thing, but wanted to get your thoughts.

Tony @ Mamo Motorsports

Good question....

I've hit this topic on the different forums and its usually received with mixed reactions because it goes against the grain of what most people have read (or no reactions....Im the post closer occasionally....LOL)

Everyone (the "Internet") says good heads don't matter on a blower/boosted combo "because air is forced in".....how many times have you guys seen that regurgitated.

Its BS....in fact I could argue just the opposite and that it matters more. The principles of an N/A and boosted engine are very similar.....in fact air is also "forced in" with a normally aspirated combo but it only has the force/weight of one atmosphere pushing on it.

And that leads me to the opportunity to blow up another Internet misnomer which is "N/A engines suck the air in and its forced in with a supercharger". NOPE....both are forced in but if your running 10 pounds of boost the air is forced in with that much additional force).

The other dynamic in favor of a good head in this argument (and why it pays you dividends potentially over and above an N/A application) is while you can certainly cram more air in with a supercharger, turbo, etc., your exhaust port doesn't really get a helping hand so a head with a really good efficient high flowing exhaust is going to really help bump the output and compound the gains of your really good efficient intake port.

In summary, a forced induction engine places a higher demand on your cylinder heads than a normally aspirated engine simply due to the fact your trying to move more air in and more air out of the engine with the help of the supercharger. A head that's less efficient will show higher boost (simply a measure of restriction) and less power....a head that's more efficient will show less boost and more power (better!).....and if you pulley up to the same boost the less efficient head was making (assuming you can), you would have more power yet from the compounding I'm discussing....Win-win

While this was way out in left field (at least in my 220 thread).....it makes for an interesting topic and one I dont mind clarifying in an effort to help people view this deal in a different light. When the smoke clears....a bad azz set of heads is always going to be the driving force behind the combination.....N/A or boosted....and I often refer to them as "the star of the show" and the cornerstone of every build....with every other component playing a supporting role (the cam coming in a close second.....LOL).

All helping to make it alot more fun doing this!

Cheers,
Tony

JakeFusion

iTrader: (7)

I don't think it's out in left field. People typically just add more boost if they want more power. But having a good flowing set of heads, a good exhaust, and a good intake tract all help make each pound of boost more efficient at producing power.

And at the end of the day, boost kills motors due to the heat. Having a more efficient motor run cooler with less boost but make more power will ensure the motor lasts.

And if you didn't glean from my question, I'm definitely now thinking of going to a 347+F1 combo.

NAVYBLUE210

Richard Holdener has demonstrated this on a Dyno several times,
Mostly with Fords back in the day but with LS Engines also. Take
A blower engine Roots, Screw, Centrifugal, didn't matter, leaving the
Blower speed the same but changing to more efficient heads
(ported or aftermarket) dropped the Boost # but increased power
due to cooler and denser intake charge with reduced tendency
to detonation. Win Win all the way around. As has been stated
Boost #s as well as oil pressure #s are a measurement of resistance
To flow, efficient porting reduces pressure & Heat increasing flow/volume
and in an oil pump reduces cavitation as well.

Camaro99SS

iTrader: (4)

Most guys with boosted combos seem to care mainly about hitting max hp or track time goals, period. if it takes 20psi+ on e85 through a stock junkyard 5.3 then so be it. It's just a different mentality.

But eventually theres a limit as to how much power you can "fart" out... Id take a well matched n/a setup making 600 or so crank HP or even alittle less any day over a 700+ Boosted throw together setup.

Jason

dr_whigham

iTrader: (49)

As would I, yet that 700+ car would still drag that ***. Tony, nice to see you again broaching the subject about GOOD heads on a boosted vehicle. I'm tired of always seeing the "turn up the boost" comment.

If one can make more HP with less boost and less heat, should be a no brainier. Last I checked heads are cheaper than a short block.

tmoney82

unit

Just got home. 412 Max HP and 384 Max Torque. Proxses Tuning in Centerville Ohio did an outstanding job. Car runs great and pulls hard and any RPM - I'm very happy with it. It's exactly what I wanted. I posted a couple of pics, car on the rollers and the Dyno Report. I know some of you are waiting so I won't say any more right now.

Darth_V8r

iTrader: (4)

Congratulations! Always nice to have your goals met. What was your cam spec?

unit

Tony spec'd the cam for me. He can tell you more about it than I can, however, I wanted to make my power down low and at mid-range. I had no intention of running headers or an intake at the time. I changed my mind about the headers and Fast after the first dyno tune because I got more interested in the build as I went. You'll probably understand those feelings. Anyway - the cam is 221/228(LSL/LXL) @ .050 ....114 + 2. The car does have a nice little lope to it and sounds bad ***. My 16 yr. old grandson was astonished when he heard it the first time, said he'd never heard a vette sound like that before. I have Magnaflow axle back mufflers and they do add a little excitement to the exhaust!

blk00ss

iTrader: (66)

Not always lol

tmoney82

By the graph, there seem to be power down low and I bet you can light the tire pretty easy

Tony @ Mamo Motorsports

Guys,

Overall Im very pleased with the results....keep in mind this build is very conservative, not to mention dyno'ing thru an A4 driveline and a really small cam meant for boosting the lower/middle portion of the curve and giving excellent street manners and alot of throttle response. And btw, its that exact situation that was very important to Terry....the type of performance that you can't see on a dyno graph....how the car behaves on the street and takes throttle....how responsive it is and how strong the tip in is etc,. The stuff that makes the car more fun to drive and easier to live with long term....and I know Terry can validate that the car is alot more fun to drive than even the final numbers might indicate based on the enthusiasm of the emails and texts I received today.

This deal started off completely different but the final direction it took left Terry with a really solid performer that will still sip fuel on the longer drives (25+ MPG guaranteed) and provide really solid performance numbers with an OEM style feel to it that pulls from any RPM but makes a bunch more power than stock. Its certainly over 500 HP at the crank now which I think is 50 more than he was originally looking for (but still wanted stock like driving manners).

It was a long road but thankfully the end results justified the means to get there.

Enjoy the car Terry....I know your psyched to be able to drive it again versus wrench on it.....LOL



Cheers,
Tony

tmoney82

So I'm assuming that this would be a good sleeper vette right? Should be pretty explosive off the line in a short run