MS4 Cam
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 77
Likes: 0
From: Durham NC
MS4 Cam So I'm about to come home for a little bit from Camp Legeune and wanna get a little bit of work done to my 99 SS. Here's a list of what all I'm trying to get done.
MS4 Cam on 111LSA
PRC .675 EHT Dual Springs
7.400" Pushrods
Yank SS 4000 Stall Converter
What do y'all think? Good combo? Car is close to stock. Had a little rear end work and X pipe that's about it. Car is somewhat of a DD. I drive it whenever I come home which right now hasn't been that often. I'm hoping to get the car brought out to my next station an be able to drive her more often. Let me know what y'all think
MS4 Cam on 111LSA
PRC .675 EHT Dual Springs
7.400" Pushrods
Yank SS 4000 Stall Converter
What do y'all think? Good combo? Car is close to stock. Had a little rear end work and X pipe that's about it. Car is somewhat of a DD. I drive it whenever I come home which right now hasn't been that often. I'm hoping to get the car brought out to my next station an be able to drive her more often. Let me know what y'all think
Why so big? Gonna have to build your 4l60e because you have to spin it to a minimum of 6500. Hated mine, in a street car it's basically worthless, sounds cool at idle and gets **** gas mileage. What was a real eye opener is when I ran a guy with a baby cam and tsp 5.3 heads and got absolutely murdered from any roll. Much better cams out there for useable power. I vote sns stage 2.
11 Second Club
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 322
Likes: 1
Big cams are fine, especially with a big stall.
Ran a Polluter and 4,300 stall in the heavy Goat and did high 11s on demand with DRs. 1.6 60ft, 1/8 mile MPH over 90....etc. Small cam lovers like to rail against the big ones by taking about loss of low end...etc. I didn't lose ****, only gained huge. Keep in mind with a stall that big the only time you'll see 4k at more than half throttle will be first gear. Your shift extension is going to regain at 5,200+ in second. Good. These aren't BBCs. Keep those RPMs up and watch that small block make power where it does it best. **** low end. You don't need big low end power to putt putt to Walgreens.
I do like the MS3 more than the 4 however because you get 90% of the 4s gains and very very similar specs, but the exhaust lift is easier on springs. .649 lift on an XER fast ramp profile is going to beat on springs harder. Even ones "rated" for higher than that.
Ran a Polluter and 4,300 stall in the heavy Goat and did high 11s on demand with DRs. 1.6 60ft, 1/8 mile MPH over 90....etc. Small cam lovers like to rail against the big ones by taking about loss of low end...etc. I didn't lose ****, only gained huge. Keep in mind with a stall that big the only time you'll see 4k at more than half throttle will be first gear. Your shift extension is going to regain at 5,200+ in second. Good. These aren't BBCs. Keep those RPMs up and watch that small block make power where it does it best. **** low end. You don't need big low end power to putt putt to Walgreens.
I do like the MS3 more than the 4 however because you get 90% of the 4s gains and very very similar specs, but the exhaust lift is easier on springs. .649 lift on an XER fast ramp profile is going to beat on springs harder. Even ones "rated" for higher than that.
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Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 77
Likes: 0
From: Durham NC
Big cams are fine, especially with a big stall.
Ran a Polluter and 4,300 stall in the heavy Goat and did high 11s on demand with DRs. 1.6 60ft, 1/8 mile MPH over 90....etc. Small cam lovers like to rail against the big ones by taking about loss of low end...etc. I didn't lose ****, only gained huge. Keep in mind with a stall that big the only time you'll see 4k at more than half throttle will be first gear. Your shift extension is going to regain at 5,200+ in second. Good. These aren't BBCs. Keep those RPMs up and watch that small block make power where it does it best. **** low end. You don't need big low end power to putt putt to Walgreens.
I do like the MS3 more than the 4 however because you get 90% of the 4s gains and very very similar specs, but the exhaust lift is easier on springs. .649 lift on an XER fast ramp profile is going to beat on springs harder. Even ones "rated" for higher than that.
Ran a Polluter and 4,300 stall in the heavy Goat and did high 11s on demand with DRs. 1.6 60ft, 1/8 mile MPH over 90....etc. Small cam lovers like to rail against the big ones by taking about loss of low end...etc. I didn't lose ****, only gained huge. Keep in mind with a stall that big the only time you'll see 4k at more than half throttle will be first gear. Your shift extension is going to regain at 5,200+ in second. Good. These aren't BBCs. Keep those RPMs up and watch that small block make power where it does it best. **** low end. You don't need big low end power to putt putt to Walgreens.
I do like the MS3 more than the 4 however because you get 90% of the 4s gains and very very similar specs, but the exhaust lift is easier on springs. .649 lift on an XER fast ramp profile is going to beat on springs harder. Even ones "rated" for higher than that.
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Have you looked into the Hellion via Flow tech Induction? This cam makes killer power with the right supporting mods.
First start up after NGK TR6 plugs: http://youtu.be/gbi4-szPRZ4
First start up after NGK TR6 plugs: http://youtu.be/gbi4-szPRZ4
On The Tree
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 119
Likes: 1
I have a very similar cam to the ms4 in my car 239/239 .649/.595 on 111 lsa along with 243 heads and i like it. Im sure there are better cams but it works. Ive never been to the track with it yet, but it hangs with my buddies g8 and my other buddies mach 1 stang. Both cars trapped 117mph a few weeks ago. Once i get my fast 92 and tb on im sure the car will pull them for sure
For a true daily driver car, a big cam will obviously use more gas, but not likely a whole lot more than a smaller cam. At WOT I doubt you'd notice much differance in that regard.
However, a 4k stall will make your fuel economy go way down. Driving in the city and stopping at red light after red light, it won't have much chance to lock up.
But thus is the price to go fast. I mean, who the hell buys a V8, throws a cam in it and complains about gas mileage? Someone who doesn't understand very much of anything.
As for big cams having less low end, who cares! If your worried about power between 1000-2500 rpm, something's wrong. You'll never see that unless your in high gear, cruising at 1/4 throttle. Which means you're not even useing that extra power. And once you get above 1st gear at wot, you won't be anywhere near it. More power and RPM is where it's at.
As for the smaller cam car beating the bigger cam. It's not just a cam that makes are car fast, it's the combo. Heads, intake, exhaust, gearing and most importantly the tune. These all need to be considered in order to build a good combo. And if I remember, the MS3/4 cams are intended for nitrous, though I could be wrong.
However, a 4k stall will make your fuel economy go way down. Driving in the city and stopping at red light after red light, it won't have much chance to lock up.
But thus is the price to go fast. I mean, who the hell buys a V8, throws a cam in it and complains about gas mileage? Someone who doesn't understand very much of anything.
As for big cams having less low end, who cares! If your worried about power between 1000-2500 rpm, something's wrong. You'll never see that unless your in high gear, cruising at 1/4 throttle. Which means you're not even useing that extra power. And once you get above 1st gear at wot, you won't be anywhere near it. More power and RPM is where it's at.
As for the smaller cam car beating the bigger cam. It's not just a cam that makes are car fast, it's the combo. Heads, intake, exhaust, gearing and most importantly the tune. These all need to be considered in order to build a good combo. And if I remember, the MS3/4 cams are intended for nitrous, though I could be wrong.
I'd definitely throw headers on there if you don't have them, pulley, lid, and then things like a new timing chain and oil pump (might as well, you'll be in there).
I'd also look at some 11/32 Manton pushrods with the LSK lobes on the MS4. They are pretty hardcore lobes and take a little more care to setup properly and maintain. If you plan to drive the car often, I'd may look at the MS3 or something like the Stage IV from Brian Tooley Racing.
In fact, I'd recommend that BTR Stage IV 235/242 111+3 cam over either of the MS cams with stock heads and lower compression. Or you could even run something like the EPS cam I have which is on a billet core and uses the controlled EPS lobes.
I'd also look at the PT4000 or the CircleD 2E... both are great NA converters and very efficient. The 2E I have is loose, but you can tune that looseness out. In fact, it drives just about like stock. SS4000 is tighter, won't be as fast all motor, but will be better on nitrous. So pick your poison.
Btw, I have 3.23s right now with a 4000 stall and big cam. It drives fine. It's in the tune.
I'd also look at some 11/32 Manton pushrods with the LSK lobes on the MS4. They are pretty hardcore lobes and take a little more care to setup properly and maintain. If you plan to drive the car often, I'd may look at the MS3 or something like the Stage IV from Brian Tooley Racing.
In fact, I'd recommend that BTR Stage IV 235/242 111+3 cam over either of the MS cams with stock heads and lower compression. Or you could even run something like the EPS cam I have which is on a billet core and uses the controlled EPS lobes.
I'd also look at the PT4000 or the CircleD 2E... both are great NA converters and very efficient. The 2E I have is loose, but you can tune that looseness out. In fact, it drives just about like stock. SS4000 is tighter, won't be as fast all motor, but will be better on nitrous. So pick your poison.
Btw, I have 3.23s right now with a 4000 stall and big cam. It drives fine. It's in the tune.
4300 stall is a lot different than a 3600 stall and no headers (as far as has been posted)
It's not about small cam lovers hating on large cams, it's trying to educate that a proper small to mid size cam combo will destroy the same combo with a mismatched large cam (which is what a majority of people try to do).
You can get most of the benefit of a large cam with a good medium sized one and be able to shift at ~6500rpm instead of needing to rev out to 7000+ to see the full gains. Different ways to skin a cat is all.
FWIW my Chevelle is similar to a GTO in terms of weight and aero and also went ~90mph 1/8th in poor DA with a 230/224 cam.