Lifter Recommendation, BTR, Tick, etc come in
04-30-2015, 06:39 AM
#1
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Lifter Recommendation, BTR, Tick, etc come in Ok so I have a cam motion titan V 230/234 cam .600 lift going into my car along with shaft crower roller rockers 5/16-3/8-5/16 pushrods and PRC EHT dual valve springs on ls6 heads with the light sodium valves. Valve weights are 74g and 66 g. I know the lecture on roller rockers but I'd like to use these so lets keep the topic on lifter choice here.
I know the stock lifters aren't going to take that abuse for long. But I'd like to not spend 600 on a set of lifters because I have kind of stretched the budget at this point.
I was looking at BTR's and Tick's website at their options. Basically I want the car to be safe to the 7k limit because I'll likely shift just under that judging by the dyno curve it made before. I was mainly looking at the morel 5290s (entry level link bar or the johnson 2110. I know morel makes a better one i think 5206? as does johnson which is their 2116 i believe. Anyway I'm trying to stay out of that price point but if it necessary to reach 7k with this setup then I'll just save more.
The johnson 2110 is the lifter used in the copo program at 8500 rpm so thats confident but i cant find too many people using them in normal builds. They also offer a 2110R for slightly reduced travel which may help out. Maybe thats the best option since theyre price 200 cheaper than the link bars? Or maybe the entry level morel 5290 is better?
I know the stock lifters aren't going to take that abuse for long. But I'd like to not spend 600 on a set of lifters because I have kind of stretched the budget at this point.
I was looking at BTR's and Tick's website at their options. Basically I want the car to be safe to the 7k limit because I'll likely shift just under that judging by the dyno curve it made before. I was mainly looking at the morel 5290s (entry level link bar or the johnson 2110. I know morel makes a better one i think 5206? as does johnson which is their 2116 i believe. Anyway I'm trying to stay out of that price point but if it necessary to reach 7k with this setup then I'll just save more.
The johnson 2110 is the lifter used in the copo program at 8500 rpm so thats confident but i cant find too many people using them in normal builds. They also offer a 2110R for slightly reduced travel which may help out. Maybe thats the best option since theyre price 200 cheaper than the link bars? Or maybe the entry level morel 5290 is better?
Last edited by 01MAROONz2890; 04-30-2015 at 08:55 AM.
05-04-2015, 09:02 AM
#3
Find a lifter that has reduced internal travel and resits pump up. Preferably a lifter that has .120" internal travel or less.
This will allow lighter amounts of pre load to be utilized, and if you do happen to hit a spot of valve train instability, the reduced amount of pre load will only allow the lifter to pump up a small amount. Limiting the time that the valve hangs open possibly causing a loss in cylinder pressure and power output.
The lifter having a tendency to resist pump up also helps combats this potentially power robbing issue from occurring. Less internal travel when running light preload also means a smaller column of oil under the plunger. This helps keep the oil from aerating and the lifter from bleeding down. Air is compressible, liquid is not!
This will allow lighter amounts of pre load to be utilized, and if you do happen to hit a spot of valve train instability, the reduced amount of pre load will only allow the lifter to pump up a small amount. Limiting the time that the valve hangs open possibly causing a loss in cylinder pressure and power output.
The lifter having a tendency to resist pump up also helps combats this potentially power robbing issue from occurring. Less internal travel when running light preload also means a smaller column of oil under the plunger. This helps keep the oil from aerating and the lifter from bleeding down. Air is compressible, liquid is not!
05-04-2015, 11:01 AM
#4
Find a lifter that has reduced internal travel and resits pump up. Preferably a lifter that has .120" internal travel or less.
This will allow lighter amounts of pre load to be utilized, and if you do happen to hit a spot of valve train instability, the reduced amount of pre load will only allow the lifter to pump up a small amount. Limiting the time that the valve hangs open possibly causing a loss in cylinder pressure and power output.
The lifter having a tendency to resist pump up also helps combats this potentially power robbing issue from occurring. Less internal travel when running light preload also means a smaller column of oil under the plunger. This helps keep the oil from aerating and the lifter from bleeding down. Air is compressible, liquid is not!
This will allow lighter amounts of pre load to be utilized, and if you do happen to hit a spot of valve train instability, the reduced amount of pre load will only allow the lifter to pump up a small amount. Limiting the time that the valve hangs open possibly causing a loss in cylinder pressure and power output.
The lifter having a tendency to resist pump up also helps combats this potentially power robbing issue from occurring. Less internal travel when running light preload also means a smaller column of oil under the plunger. This helps keep the oil from aerating and the lifter from bleeding down. Air is compressible, liquid is not!
05-04-2015, 11:17 AM
#5
Just not for this app lol. I had this convo with martin for my setup. Sotck cam only setups ls7 or 5315 is ok. When you go to a higher spring rate and heavier rocker you're placing a lot more load on the lifter and something better is needed. The travel has a lot to do with it but the 2110 johnson I was talking about in the other thread has the same travel but better tolerances and internals allowing it to take the abuse. Thats why if someone is redoing lifters I would reccommend the 2110 over the 5315 for about 150 IF they have the spare cash. Its a better place to start, will use more or less the same pushrods and has the ***** later on in case you change some things.
05-04-2015, 11:22 AM
#6
Redbird is 100% correct.
Any time you have more in your budget that you can spend on lifters the better. I recommend the 5315 as what I feel is a better alternative to those who are wanting to purchase LS7 lifters, or continue to run factory lifters.
If everyone had the money to spend on link bar lifters that had .060-.100" travel and could rev to 8000rpm I would always recommend those types of lifters. Most people doing simple cam swaps in cam only set-ups do not have this type of budget though and won't be even contemplating removing the cylinder heads either.
If you're building an engine from the ground up, or doing a nice head/cam swap I'd always recommend the nicest lifter you can possible afford. When the valve can do what the tappet is telling it to do, when it tells it to do it...you will always make more power and rev higher.
05-04-2015, 01:42 PM
#7
I thought when you spec'd me a cam for the tfs-220 heads and said the 5315 was your go to lifter and would work for that setup. If I already spent 4k + on a heads/cam package then I would not of had a problem spending another 1-200.00 for a better lifter if need be.
Not trying to put you on the spot, but 2 months ago the 5315 was a great lifter, now everybody should run high dollar short travel link bars...go figure.
Not trying to put you on the spot, but 2 months ago the 5315 was a great lifter, now everybody should run high dollar short travel link bars...go figure.
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05-04-2015, 02:16 PM
#9
I thought when you spec'd me a cam for the tfs-220 heads and said the 5315 was your go to lifter and would work for that setup. If I already spent 4k + on a heads/cam package then I would not of had a problem spending another 1-200.00 for a better lifter if need be.
Not trying to put you on the spot, but 2 months ago the 5315 was a great lifter, now everybody should run high dollar short travel link bars...go figure.
Not trying to put you on the spot, but 2 months ago the 5315 was a great lifter, now everybody should run high dollar short travel link bars...go figure.
You're running a dual spring with 155/385 on the seat. That is no where near what I would consider too much for a 5315 and I would be willing to bet Morel would also say the same thing as would Chris.
You have a SLP rocker which has the same mass over the nose of the valve as a stock rocker, but has a modified pivot length to increase the ratio.
There is no reason in the world a 5315 isn't a good choice for your application.
You can't win for losing sometimes.
It is my "go to" lifter, it will and does work for your application, and I have probably 30+ sets on the shelf right now that I sell several sets a day from.
I've had one single 5315 have a problem out of hundreds of sets I've sold. Want to know how many LS7's I've had issues with? I can't even begin to count...
75% of the people that call and want lifters want LS7 lifters. So I offer a better alternative that has in my experience worked excellently. I don't remember if you asked for LS7 lifters, or if you asked for the best lifter under the sun. I do know that the 5315 lifter will work and has worked for 90% of people with head/cam LS engines.
I never said everyone should run short travel link bars, and I never said the 5315 was a bad lifter.
Last edited by Sales@Tick; 05-04-2015 at 02:57 PM.
05-04-2015, 04:05 PM
#10
Joe,
You're running a dual spring with 155/385 on the seat. That is no where near what I would consider too much for a 5315 and I would be willing to bet Morel would also say the same thing as would Chris.
You have a SLP rocker which has the same mass over the nose of the valve as a stock rocker, but has a modified pivot length to increase the ratio.
There is no reason in the world a 5315 isn't a good choice for your application.
You can't win for losing sometimes.
It is my "go to" lifter, it will and does work for your application, and I have probably 30+ sets on the shelf right now that I sell several sets a day from.
I've had one single 5315 have a problem out of hundreds of sets I've sold. Want to know how many LS7's I've had issues with? I can't even begin to count...
75% of the people that call and want lifters want LS7 lifters. So I offer a better alternative that has in my experience worked excellently. I don't remember if you asked for LS7 lifters, or if you asked for the best lifter under the sun. I do know that the 5315 lifter will work and has worked for 90% of people with head/cam LS engines.
I never said everyone should run short travel link bars, and I never said the 5315 was a bad lifter.
You're running a dual spring with 155/385 on the seat. That is no where near what I would consider too much for a 5315 and I would be willing to bet Morel would also say the same thing as would Chris.
You have a SLP rocker which has the same mass over the nose of the valve as a stock rocker, but has a modified pivot length to increase the ratio.
There is no reason in the world a 5315 isn't a good choice for your application.
You can't win for losing sometimes.
It is my "go to" lifter, it will and does work for your application, and I have probably 30+ sets on the shelf right now that I sell several sets a day from.
I've had one single 5315 have a problem out of hundreds of sets I've sold. Want to know how many LS7's I've had issues with? I can't even begin to count...
75% of the people that call and want lifters want LS7 lifters. So I offer a better alternative that has in my experience worked excellently. I don't remember if you asked for LS7 lifters, or if you asked for the best lifter under the sun. I do know that the 5315 lifter will work and has worked for 90% of people with head/cam LS engines.
I never said everyone should run short travel link bars, and I never said the 5315 was a bad lifter.
When we talked I basically asked what lifter you would recommend for that setup... I did say that I did not want or think I needed to run a 700.00 Johnson for my setup.
Oh and I still will be contacting you for my 418 build when the time comes. For now the little 346 will do. Again, I do appreciate all your help even though I did go another direction. Thanks!!
05-04-2015, 04:37 PM
#11
Ok that is all I needed to know. I really appreciate your insight and I really believe you know your stuff. I guess I am getting worried that I might have a lifter failure since the 5315 seems to be on the chopping block as of late.
When we talked I basically asked what lifter you would recommend for that setup... I did say that I did not want or think I needed to run a 700.00 Johnson for my setup.
Oh and I still will be contacting you for my 418 build when the time comes. For now the little 346 will do. Again, I do appreciate all your help even though I did go another direction. Thanks!!
When we talked I basically asked what lifter you would recommend for that setup... I did say that I did not want or think I needed to run a 700.00 Johnson for my setup.
Oh and I still will be contacting you for my 418 build when the time comes. For now the little 346 will do. Again, I do appreciate all your help even though I did go another direction. Thanks!!
05-04-2015, 04:40 PM
#12
Ok that is all I needed to know. I really appreciate your insight and I really believe you know your stuff. I guess I am getting worried that I might have a lifter failure since the 5315 seems to be on the chopping block as of late.
When we talked I basically asked what lifter you would recommend for that setup... I did say that I did not want or think I needed to run a 700.00 Johnson for my setup.
Oh and I still will be contacting you for my 418 build when the time comes. For now the little 346 will do. Again, I do appreciate all your help even though I did go another direction. Thanks!!
When we talked I basically asked what lifter you would recommend for that setup... I did say that I did not want or think I needed to run a 700.00 Johnson for my setup.
Oh and I still will be contacting you for my 418 build when the time comes. For now the little 346 will do. Again, I do appreciate all your help even though I did go another direction. Thanks!!
The 5315 in your application is a great lifter. I have had customers use them with much higher spring pressure, lift, and RPM than you are.
We as hot rodders and performance enthusiasts have a habit of taking things to their limits, and consequently learning just how hard we can push certain parts.
Had you told LS enthusiasts back in 2002 that they could make 800rwhp+ with a stock bottom end LS engine and make it live for an appreciable amount of time, they'd all look at you like you just left the looney bin!