Tony @ Mamo Motorsports

Guys,

Seems some of you are nervous about the 250 cc cathedral in a big bore large cube engine. Dont be....if you were building a 427-454 CID BBC a 250 cc port would be considered small to say the least. Big motors have larger appeitites for air and CSA (cross sectional area).....without both they tend to "roll over" faster than you might like.

The 454 I built a few years ago essentially had my prototype MMS 250 on it (it was a Mamofied AFR 245 head).

I'm sure most of you have seen the thread but for the newbies that weren't around then here is the link (punchline is engine never made it in my Vette unfortunately and is now sitting in shortblock trim in my shop for future R&D). That said it is still an excellent example of the potential of the heads I am discussing and the shape of the power and torque curve....worth a look if you never saw the thread.

https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...ker-ready.html

As far as I know, that was the most powerful cathedral headed engine with a conventional FAST composite intake I am familiar with....nothing has touched it at Westech and these guys dyno a slew of LS based combinations. More importantly, the torque curve was insane.....something an LS7 headed combo would never be able to create (although a good one would make more peak power). A smaller large bore engine wouldn't come up on peak torque quite as quickly but it would still have a similar curve that ramps up quickly.....hangs on, and slooowwlly rolls over....in fact even slower roll off upstairs with less cubes.

Is the MMS 250 the right call for every 427+ combo.....clearly no as I tried to explain in my earlier post but I wouldn't hesitate to run one if big power was your target goal. Carbuff.....your the perfect example of why the 235 is a better call.....your building more of a road course car where transient response and big power coming off corners is what is going to impact your racing alot more than an extra 20-25 HP at the top of the curve. And when your tooling around on the street, the explosiveness of the smaller head will bring a tear to your eye.....LOL Get in touch with me....lets see what we can put together for you.

KCS.....it is still the standard valve centerline (based off an OEM 243 head).....also the same as the AFR line of cathedral heads including the AFR 245 which is essentially what this new head started life as. The 2.165/1.600 combo is about the most you can run with that centerline (any more and the spacing between the valves is too tight) but it poses no long term problems at all. The big SBC 23' and Windsor stuff AFR does with the larger valves have about the same distance between them and it doesn't seem to pose any long term issues at all with the correct seat interlock.

Catch you guys later!

-Tony

KCS

iTrader: (20)

Thanks Tony. I only ask because I have a 2.165/1.57 combo in a set of TFS cathedral heads and when I was shopping around for someone to cut the valve job for me, I was actually told it wouldn't fit. Glad to see you can do math lol.

Looking forward to seeing more on this 250cc head.

Tuskyz28

KCS- I believe we go see results real soon....
check out this thread where they going on this 447ci motor

https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iv-internal-engine/1782429-01-ss-m6-ls2-447ci-mms-afr-245cc-shortblock-arrived-2.html

Tony @ Mamo Motorsports

The only thing is I dont know if the TFS uses the stock valve centerlines....if you can confirm that you would have all the pertinent info!


Sorry I didn't already address this....my new MMS 220's would be an ideal head for the stock displacement stuff....especially a 346 build which was in my cross hairs when I designed that particular product

A link to that thread below.....it seems you may have missed or overlooked it!

https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...on-inside.html

-Tony

jmaynard72

I just wanted to take the time and thank Tony for discussing my build with me. I originally contacted him about a different set of heads that he had done some work on, and Tony even called me back on Memorial Day to discuss them with me. After talking about my combo, he suggested his new 235 heads and some other parts to complement my set up, and increase reliability.

I want to say thanks for the insight, and that I can’t wait to post the results from the Mamo 235's with the NFI exhaust port, Tony speced cam, and associated supporting parts. This should really wake up the 390 with a Borg S484 in my 04 Silverado.

I will keep you updated on the build, and the power numbers as I can-still 4 weeks away from all parts being in.

Thanks again Tony!

Jon

caviness

iTrader: (14)

might be getting me some off these soon and some more stuff to go fast to hell yeah !!!

Undertow74

iTrader: (45)

Well looks like I am going to be having some "mamofied" AFR 215 heads for sale here soon!! I have my down payment in for a killer new set of 235's to go with my new engine the anticipation that awaits!

JakeFusion

iTrader: (7)

Hey Tony, what would the price be for these setup for a solid roller?

dr_whigham

iTrader: (49)

I'd be curious on what you'd want for them...

Tony @ Mamo Motorsports

Jake....you know this kind of question is a better question handled via PM or email.....LOL

Bottom line I would set you up with a PAC 1207 spring but set a little tighter on the seat than stock (175-180 on the seat....450 ish open). We would run Pac Ti retainers and PAC ID locators would also be required. It adds a few hundred to the total for all the expensive PAC gear but its the best stuff out there IMO and worth the money. You would be good till 7800 or so RPM with a cam that lifts the valve .650 ish net.

Hope this helps!

-Tony

JakeFusion

iTrader: (7)

Yeah, I know Tony. I think a lot of folks will be considering these with solid rollers. The Cam Motion Low Lash Roller stuff is looking very attractive for a lot of reasons.

RUNUDWN99T/A

how would these fair for a 408 12 to 13 ish Cr, 1050 qfx, cam will be 650 ish plus,red line some were around 7000 to 7500,race fuel,supper vic or comparable intake(4500). not a street car(drag).what would be the power potential? for traction want some low end but not blowing the tires at the lights. but want that big end pulling power.going for n/a but might boost it(unsure at this point).if not these what?

was looking and talk to another shop. the heads they were saying to use was 265cc 11 Degree for a 4.000"+ Bore.
some spec

Utilizes the Gen IV LS valve-train and intake manifold.
• Designed for any Gen IV short-block with 4.000" bore or larger.
• Uses a 2.165" intake valve and 1.600" exhaust valve
• Has a 265cc intake port
• Has a deck thickness of .750"

they said 600 to 650 fwhp n/a.

what do you think? and thanks for any help you give.

NAVYBLUE210

MMS 235 with 2.10" valve 12.5:1 comp with appropriate LLSR
can reach 700+ FWHP ~ 7200-7500 RPM with the aforementioned
Intake/Carb set-up. Tony for the Heads Kip for the Cam!

Tony @ Mamo Motorsports

This head will do that and more.....nothing exotic needed. And give you a bunch more low/midrange torque and power and ton more throttle response.

Can we hit 700 with a well worked single plane, 4500 carb, and a solid roller and some compression? Maybe....I think that's the high end of whats feasible for 400 or so inches but at the least we would get close.....it would fall on 675 HP and even that exceeds the numbers you mention. No need for the price and complexity of a large port 11 degree set-up and you don't have enough room for a 2.165 valve head on a bore that small.....not enough for it to be very effective IMO. An LS3 bore would be the absolute smallest I would run that size valve in.

I have quite a few 402-416 CID builds out there with FAST intakes and HR's making low/mid 600's on pump gas with a head not even as good as the new 235's I'm recommending.....just an FYI. Better head, single plane, more compression....more lift and accurate valve motion with the solid.....we should be golden!

-Tony

Gluemaker

iTrader: (12)

I received my set of these 235's last Friday. Guys, I have to say that these things are insanely well crafted. I've handled different heads before and haven't seen anything that looked this good. Automotive art. I'm ready to see how they perform on my build. Only time will tell. Big thanks to Tony for all his help this far into everything.

Mike Prychka

i heard in this thread, or maybe another one how much tq is lost with the
vic jr and super vic intakes compared to say an llsxr or whatever it is...

would you say the endlebrock pro flow intake would be a better choice then the super vic??

i plan on getting a set of the mms235s for sure when im ready to upgrade heads.

Jimbo1367

Mr Mamo,
What is the weight of the MM235 intake valve? What about the MM250 intake valve?

thanks,
Jim

Jimbo1367

^^^^^^^^
this.

Jimbo1367

I must of missed it. What bore size was used for the flow numbers? 4.070 ?

NAVYBLUE210

Was not posted but I am willing to bet 4.060". I am sure Tony
Will confirm later today, bit of a Night Owl LOL!