hrlyhnx

iTrader: (3)

Tony.....
I'm a fan of your MMS 250NFI. what are my options for those heads with 6 bolts instead of only 4?

If I recall correctly I read you suggested TFS 245's and you would port them?

I'm looking for the performance of your MMS 250 NFI with the extra clamping power of 6 bolts instead of 4 (twin turbos T-67's). What are all my options for this matter?

thanks in advance
Henry

Black00SS/65SS

iTrader: (2)

All, I just wanted to say that I received my MMS NFI 235s a few days ago for a pretty max effort build and they are quite masterful. The extensive detail is extremely evident and the finish in the chambers exceeds anything I've seen for a cnc finished chamber!! I've worked with quite a few race heads before and there is no expense spared on these. Now to put together more fundage and look forward to working with Tony on cam selection and a few other things. You will only help yourself by stepping up to these heads!! Thanks again Tony!!

Tony @ Mamo Motorsports

Get into a six bolt TFS casting.....I do alot of the six bolt (and four bolt) TFS LS3 heads for the CTSV crowd and they are pretty impressive after I rework them a bit. With the type of air your discussing moving here the big rect port will be a benefit for you and you get the extra clamping power of the six bolt design (obviously with the use of a six bolt block!).

That's what I would recommend!

Travis....that must be you!

I know you would be pleased with the NFI heads although even my standard 235's have the same intake port and really detailed combustion chamber.....only the exhaust port is physically larger and different with a slightly larger 1.630 valve.

Thanks for the props....look forward to helping you complete this package and getting some numbers put down

Regards,
Tony

gregrob

iTrader: (8)

What do these offer over something like the TFS 245 CNC ported? Cost seems the same...

Exidous

iTrader: (11)

10cc smaller ports for similar flow means better velocity for one. I only say similar flow as they were not tested on the same bench. In reality they are different but not greatly so. The 235's would shine on a slightly smaller motor than the 245's.

gregrob

iTrader: (8)

Really? Because the flow data on TEA TFS 245 look to come on very strong very early. I dont think there's a velocity issue when the TFS 245 is up ~20 CFM EVERYWHERE on this head, even from very low lift.

Not trying to crap on this thread at all, I respect Tony and his work. I just legitimately want to know how this head compares as I am actively considering both offerings for my build.

svede1212

iTrader: (3)

Velocity and flow are two different things. The same volume of a fluid coming out of a straw as opposed to a sewer pipe has a LOT higher velocity. Don't know these ratios of port to flow or even IF the flow benches are exactly the same so the answer is hard to give unless Tony has tested the TFS

gregrob

iTrader: (8)

All true, the fact still remains though the TFS heads flow amazingly well at low / mid lift. If they were lacking in velocity, they wouldn't be able to fill the ports so efficiently at such low lift.

I'm saying in the real world, on a running engine, how will these heads outperform the ones I mentioned. Exidous says they will shine on a smaller engine, but how small of an engine are we talking here? Because if you have a true street car at 346ci I dont see you putting a 235 cc head on there regardless. If you have a race car 400" or bigger, how do these compare to the TFS option.

svede1212

iTrader: (3)

Velocity packs air in at higher than ambient pressure in a dynamic engine as opposed to a flow on a static bench. I think it would also depend on the engine's demand so the size of it, the cam, the manifold and the exhaust all weigh in.

Tony @ Mamo Motorsports

You cant compare flow numbers unless the bench is the same (see my sticky about flow numbers if you haven't already....there can be 30+ CFM disparities).

Also, I'm adverting the flow numbers on my 235's on a 4.060 bore fixture (slightly smaller than an actual LS3 bore)....it would have better lows and mids on a 4.125 bore which I suspect the larger TFS are flowed on.

In fact they must be flowed on a large bore due to this footnote I just found on their website


These cylinder heads are not designed as a stock replacement, they can only be used on LS-based engines with a minimum bore diameter of 4.125 in. Must be used with roller rocker arms.


Bottom line, I designed the MMS 235 heads to really be "in the zone" on 4 inch to 4.070 bore applications although you could certainly run them on a large bore engine as well....with 345 CFM on the intake and 260-270 exhaust, you could comfortably feed a 427-434 CID package as well.....and it would be explosive.....I would just cam it up a little on the larger engine to help the big peak number. The airspeed would keep you out of having reversion issues and a soggy bottom end. A larger cylinder head (especially a square port), would be much more sensitive to the type of cam timing the high flow/high airspeed 235 design would and could tolerate.

Once again its always about the combination more so than any one single component although the heads really are always the foundation of any serious build and every other component chosen really helps to compliment (or hurt) their potential. The right cam....the right exhaust....the right induction and valvetrain parts, etc.

-Tony

Darth_V8r

iTrader: (4)

Somewhere in one of these threads, Tony talks about port efficiency, which I think is flow / port volume.

If a 235 and 245 head flow the same or close enough to not matter, I'd prefer the 235:

Rise of the Phoenix

iTrader: (27)

I'd love to see a back to back comparison of the MMS 235cc heads vs. the TFS 245cc heads on something like a 408 or 416ci setup.

Jimbo1367

Me three

josh4ku

iTrader: (10)

sub'd

Vegas02ta

iTrader: (5)

Yeah pure luv , blood, sweat & tears

Tuskyz28

You not the only one.

Mavn

iTrader: (3)

I have the time, I could do this... 416 ci motor here with a Cathedral cam and a Fast 102... Jyst no money for 2 sets of heads lol

Tuskyz28

What's the spec on the cam? I'm go say your your cam eithier favors the tfs heads or mms heads? Valve size and valve angle, etc plays a role when specing a cam.

NAVYBLUE210

Tusky,
I am going to say, E/I Flow Ratio plays a bigger factor.
Along with port efficiency.

Rise of the Phoenix

iTrader: (27)

Common, aren't you a big baller. Just call up Tony and Brian and have them send you a free set of their respective heads. Whichever one makes better power, tell them you'll buy.